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Heber13 wrote:cwald wrote:
“Fowler Stage 4 Mormon Specialists.”
💡
I sustain cwald as Fowler Stage 4 Mormon Specialist.🙂 Thanks – but i don’t have a current TR, so according to the CHI, I’m not eligible for the calling at this time.
I have thought about this topic some in the past, but I can’t help but see hesitancy by the leaders sending someone who “has struggled” into visit with a currently struggling member. It could be interpreted as similar to a recovering alcoholic going into visit someone with a current drinking problem. It’s a different situation than say an AA meeting, a situation that most leaders just wouldn’t want to be responsible for. It could be beneficial, yes – but there is also a small chance of something going wrong. In our case — if any unorthodox messages are given the leader may feel responsible. Orson wrote:It could be beneficial, yes – but there is also a small chance of something going wrong. In our case — if any unorthodox messages are given the leader may feel responsible.
Absolutely. Stake leaders, in general, take their responsibilities very seriously. Much more than at the ward/branch level, they feel that their responsibility is to keep everybody in line and squash anything that might be considered unconventional. For example, in our stake, the latest directive concerning youth dances is that girls will
notdance with other girls, lest anyone get any funny ideas. It’s ridiculous, but well-intentioned, and fills the role of keeping everyone on the straight-and-narrow nicely. They have already been given the tools necessary to fill their role by inspiration. No exceptions. And frankly, if I were the stake president, I’d be very wary of turning a self-proclaimed free-thinker loose on my flock. I think this approach is highly flawed. I think that by taking an overly conservative oatmeal approach, the Church can feel better and say, “Well, it was his own damn fault that apostate thought himself out of the Church”. Whereas if the Church was a bit more proactive and presented things that might be challenging to some but would teach the challenging information by safe sources, we could help more people stay in the Church. But you are correct, Orson… Stake Leaders would first need to confirm that the helper/guide is a “safe” source.
Enoch wrote:I think this approach is highly flawed.I think that by taking an overly conservative oatmeal approach, the Church can feel better and say, “Well, it was his own damn fault that apostate thought himself out of the Church”. Whereas if the Church was a bit more proactive and presented things that might be challenging to some but would teach the challenging information by safe sources, we could help more people stay in the Church. .. I do as well – but I have a difficulty with MANY MANY church policies and governmental decisions. I think the church has grown too fast and gotten too big – I don’t want to thread jack this into a “how much I hate the correlation movement” discussion, but I could really easily.
Enoch wrote:… “Well, it was his own damn fault that apostate thought himself out of the Church”. ..
I found this quite humorous actually. Good word choice today – fits, and makes the point.
I made this at this site. You will appreciate it cwald. 
Enoch wrote:I think this approach is highly flawed. I think that by taking an overly conservative oatmeal approach, the Church can feel better and say, “Well, it was his own damn fault that apostate thought himself out of the Church”. Whereas if the Church was a bit more proactive and presented things that might be challenging to some but would teach the challenging information by safe sources, we could help more people stay in the Church.
We are with you all the way on this. The problem is convincing the personalities who feel a spiritual confirmation is far more important than logic.
In my mind it is fundamentally a personality difference: “Your logic doesn’t feel right to me” vs. “Your feelings don’t make sense to me.”
Quote:AGENCY: Lucipher demanded a recount…they named it correlation
😆 Nice!Orson, I agree on the personality issue. Of course, ideally logic AND emotions should be respected. Meaning transcends explanation.
The intersection of myth and experience creates its own truth.
😆 I do appreciate that.
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