- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I’m using October as a month to go on a church walkabout. I’m going to pick 4 different churches to attend, just for the experience. If you could pick 4, which churches would you recommend to get the greatest experience?
For me it would be based on the show they put on, the quality of the fellowship, and how well their meetings cater to the interests of children and youth. Doctrine would be less important as I believe it’s all a result of interpretation at this point. Just for the cultural aspect of it, I would probably want to attend a Buddhist service, a Muslim one, and then two Christian churches, perhaps Pentacostal or Christian MIssionary Alliance (Evangelical) since they have really grown in the last decade; I’d like to see why. And the other would probably be a Baptist service. Also, the fact that these latter Christian groups tend to be among the most antagonistic to Mormons pique’s my interest to see if they have anything better to offer. For me, they would be partly ‘on trial’ as I silently observe whether they have anything better to offer.
I’ve never actually attended another church’s services so far. I would like to out of curiosity but I worry what my wife would think about it. For example, maybe she would think that I am worse than an infidel for supposedly acting like a traitor toward the LDS Church and then tell her parents that I don’t want to be Mormon anymore or something like that. So my impression of other churches mostly comes from what I see on TV and in movies and from hearing about them and talking with some of their followers on my mission. Personally, I don’t have much interest in some of the Pentecostal/Evangelical churches that do the whole speaking in tongues thing or listening to hellfire and damnation sermons about how the Bible says this or that and therefore the matter is settled. A few churches I would like to visit are the Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, and Nazarene churches to see how they compare to each other and the LDS Church. I spent pretty well the whole summer doing this. I only went to the LDS church three times since May. I went to a catholic church, UU, Buddhist, Presbyterian and several community churches. My conclusion. All organized religions have some good stuff and some bad stuff — all of them have their problems and warts and cult-like behavior and ignorant people and illogical fallacies. The LDS church is not alone in that regard. As rough as the LDS church can be – I don’t see them any being worse or better than the next guy.
I love evensong at the Anglican church. I also found Buddhist temples interesting. I would like to visit a Hindu and Muslim service. My best friend growing up was UU. Very political, but also interesting. Quote:
If you could pick 4, which churches would you recommend to get the greatest experience?1 – A fancy Catholic church, beautiful music if you can find a decent one. Best to go to a large one/cathedral in a big city for the best effect.
2 – Pentecostal (but avoid really nutty ones) for a completely different take on worship and dress.
3 – Salvation Army – again, quite different.
4 – Eastern Orthodox/Coptic – interesting to see if only as an outsider.
I’ve always wanted to go to a Quaker meeting.
One thing you will find, incidentally, is that there is massive variety within these denominations (3 and 4 possibly excepted). Baptists, Anglicans and Catholics all have huge variety. Some Anglicans are practically Catholic (“Apist rather than Papist”) and some extreme Protestant, and some more or less Pentecostal. The same goes for Presbyterianism and Methodism, although in both cases much less emphasis on the RC end.
My four recommendations: 1. Catholic Mass
Preferably one in a cathedral-like building if you have one close enough. Nobody does the awe and mystery, the pomp and pageantry like the Catholics (and I mean that in a positive way).
2. Jesus Loves Rock and Roll Church
Not sure what else to call these, but go visit a non-denominational Christian church where casual dress is the norm, they have an espresso bar and free coffee in the foyer, and a rock band with big video screens for praise music. I visited a couple of these in Georgia where we used to live (they were popular). It was like going to a rock concert with a professional motivational speaker (pastor) in the middle.
3. Unitarian Universalist
Where the religion is moral philosophy. I think it’s worth exploring, although it seems to me like a lot of Mormons looking for a replacement after a crisis of faith tend to find this not quite meaty and demanding enough after a time. The concept is really cool though.
4. Hare Krishna!
Not sure what you call these groups, but I know one organization is called the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I recommend something like this for an experience of REALLY stepping outside your cultural religious comfort zone (assuming western christian culture as the basis). They’re super nice people, and the tend to gather for singing, chanting, dancing and a big vegetarian feast regularly.
Last week was my first go about…and the Buddhist temple was at the top of my list. I first read on their web page about expectations (dress, times of service, classes, location, etc). The site suggested:
Quote:Please enter the Jodo Shinshu Buddhist Temple quietly. The main service room is the Hondo. Please remove your hat before entering the Hondo. When you enter the Hondo, it is customary to bow and enter with your left foot leading. Traditionally, women bow from the waist with hands crossed in front, and men bow from the waist with hands at their sides. You back is kept straight during the bow.
Chanting of the sutras is done in unison. Choose the deepest pitch that suits you, and the chant will be a harmonious blend of all voices. We chant the Japanese transliteration of Chinese words, so the sound, rather than the meaning of the words, is the basic experience of chanting.
It went on to talk about gassho (putting hands together like you’re saying grace), burning incense, and which foot to put forward when entering or leaving the Hondo.
I was a bit intimidated, even practiced at home several times thinking I was going to make a fool of myself.
My 16 yr old daughter wanted to come with me, so we made it a date.
When we got there, it was very low key. The people were very friendly, asked if we had questions, wondered where we were from, and laughed with us making really funny jokes in their Japanese accents that somehow made me feel so very welcome. All the customs and traditions and bows and all that was not a major deal. I saw some devoted members do it, and I saw some that didn’t … which made me feel more comfortable not needing to worry about it…but I tried a little to get the experience and show respect (I’m sure they were laughing at me on the inside).
The service was lightly attended…I mean lightly. There ended up being 12 people in the Hondo with us. The sensei went through chants and we followed along in the book. Then, he came down off the stand and pulled out a white dry erase board and taught a lesson. IT WAS WONDERFUL.
He taught us about finding the Buddha nature within us. That we have this specialness inside, and following the 40 vows help us discover what is there and what we sometimes don’t know, and we don’t know how special we are. My daughter really liked this and was leaning forward nodding her head.
The Sensei pulled out a piece of wood. He said:
Quote:This piece of wood is you. When I strike it against this chair, it makes a loud unpleasant noise. Then here on the leather pad, not good. Then here at the corner of the stand, not good. On my head (ouch), not good.
We smiled as he showed us how many things he strikes with this wood, and the sounds were loud or not good.
Then he takes a second piece of wood and says
Quote:This wood is your Buddha nature.
When he hit the two pieces of wood together, as we sat in this large Hondo room with few people and all quiet, the wood made a surprisingly beautiful musical tone, like a ringing from a xylophone. He says:
Quote:That sound is good. That is the true sound inside this wood. It is found when it strikes against the right object. Like you…you are special, you are beautiful, you have beauty within you. You can release that when you follow the Buddha, when you find the special meaning of yourself, your Buddha nature.
I can only describe my feelings as I listened to this wise man, as feeling the spirit of God testifying of truth to me. A tear came to my eye and I felt happy inside.
Afterwards he invited us to coffee and donuts, and we visited with the other members. They gave us a handful of pamphlets on Jodo Shinsu, their calendar and up and coming activities, and thanked us for coming.
My daughter and I left very uplifted. My daughter said:
Quote:I wish we had more of that in our church
I asked her more of what?
Quote:More lessons and teachings that really make me think about things in my life. Things that make me feel good about myself.
We continued talking, and she realized there are times in YW when she does have those experiences, but she thinks they are too infrequent.
We both agree it was wonderful to see how others do things. We both agreed there is some truth and wisdom in that Buddhist temple. It does not prove our church is false, but it helps us bring some things back to our mormonism. I think the lesson of the 2 pieces of wood can be compared to our spirit and the Light of Christ within us. I have been pondering of other interpretations of what this lesson can mean to me. I think it is profound.
It was a wonderful experience, and having my daughter join me made it even better. We’ll always remember this and the feelings we had.
The next congregations on my list include:
Catholic Mass
Local, small Church of Christ congregation
Grace Lutheran church in our area.
I will let you know more of my walk-a-bout experience.
An object lesson of a spiritual nature. Very cool. I have attended a 7th Day Adventist church, Unitarian church, Community of Christ Church, non-denominational Christian church, and Nazerene church. They all had good things. The Nazerene church showed the love of Christ best so far for me and where we have stayed the past year. We also attended a gay affirming church in Daytona Beach a couple of times and where I gave my presentation on Mormomism. Great people there too. I truly believe that God works in all churches and inspiries people in all churches including the lds church. I was led to the 7th Day Adventist church for two years and then back to the lds church for 10 years and now to the Nazerene church. I believe in following where the Spirit leds you as that is the place you can grow best or help others at that time in your life. It might be interesting to go to a church service in a language you don’t know. Most major cities have Latin masses, but there will be other options. That way I think one gets a sense of the form, rather than the meaning of the service. It’s an unusual experience. The second church I visited was Catholic Mass. The cathedral was spacious and beautiful stained glass windows. I was early, and sat in the pews waiting for it to start. The quiet, peaceful, majestic, and beautiful environment was my favorite part. There was a woman a few rows over that was sobbing and kneeling in prayer. There were not very many families, more couples or just individuals. The priest gave a sermon among the other hymns and chants and the standing and kneeling. At one point we all shook hands with people around us and said “God bless you”, which was the extent of the social experience. I did not take very much away from the service, but enjoyed the experience.
It was interesting. But like I said, my favorite part was before the service in the quiet, peaceful cathedral.
Yesterday I took the opportunity to attend a local congregation of the Church of Christ. I actually was very interested in this and had been looking forward to this particular visit on my list of churches to go see.
It was a small congregation, small enough to recognize me as a new visitor, and many people immediately greeted me at the door and invited me to sit down as they moved across the pew to make room for me.
There was a lot of singing hymns…which I must admit, I’m not a good singer and don’t appreciate music, but I read along in the hymn books with them.
A lot of the service felt fairly familiar to me, and I saw similarities to the LDS sacrament meeting, including the passing of the bread (which was crackers) and wine (which I didn’t have to know if it was wine or grape juice).
There were some good messages given on remembering the Savior and His sacrifice for us. Short and sweet and basic. A lot of “hallelujah” and “He is great” comments…all done in a very religious tone…almost like people can’t just talk normally, but when they start praising God, some new tone automatically comes over them to praise God in a holy roller tone. I guess Mormons have a different tone, like when bearing testimony or some call it the “Relief Society voice”. I guess my mind was wondering about that for a while, then I got back to paying attention.
Then the preacher got up and gave a rather lengthy sermon on Thanks and Giving. Hearing the topic introduced, I perked up, as this time of year is a great time to reflect on these. I was disappointed to hear his talk was that if we want to Thank God for all God has given us, we must open our hearts, our minds…and yes…our wallets to the ministry. Then they passed the plate around for collections. The sermon continued about how as a full time minister, he “had to make this ministry thing work” or he knew he would have to resort to working a hard living like construction in 115 degree heat laying hot asphalt on the road or something like that, and he did not want that. He wanted to spread the word of God. He quoted from the New Testament the teachings of Paul, that it is appropriate for members to support those that devote their lives to preaching (see 1 Tim. 5:17), and that if we really want to thank the Lord, we will give money.
I was disappointed there was no further point to the sermon, and wondered if I came on a bad week, but as he concluded his sermon, he again mentioned that they had been preaching raising of financial means for the church in order to do its work for several months now…so apparently, it was a continuing theme.
I was not impressed, but appreciated the friendly people making me feel welcome. But there was no spirit felt in that congregation.
It made me grateful our church has overcome financial difficulties that we no longer have to hear much about that on Sundays. When I think of it in Mormonism, yes…there is tithing required and we are asked to give generously to the Fast Offerings as a sign of our devotion. But honestly, in my LDS experience, those are done with emphasis on the need for me to do that, not that the Church needs it and applies pressure to members for it. And I like the confidential tithing envelopes instead of passing a plate. Perhaps I’m too prideful.
It made me grateful that is one thing we don’t worry too much about, and the unpaid ministry makes it all sincerely being done from the heart. Maybe I find talks and lessons less than professional at times in our church…but seeing this other congregation made me appreciate what we have in the church. It made me a fan of unpaid clergy.
This walk-a-bout has been interesting to me so far. So far, I think Mormonism fits me best, followed by Buddhism and then the others are not really that interesting to me. More for me to come.
PiperAlpha wrote:Then the preacher got up and gave a rather lengthy sermon on Thanks and Giving. Hearing the topic introduced, I perked up, as this time of year is a great time to reflect on these. I was disappointed to hear his talk was that if we want to Thank God for all God has given us, we must open our hearts, our minds…and yes…our wallets to the ministry.
In the secondary church I am attending, the pastor recently gave a similar talk.
First he talked about the cursing of the fig tree for not producing fruit
even though it was not the season for figs!The Pastor applied this to how God requires us to produce fruit even against season i.e. bad economy. Next he talked about Jesus requiring a particular colt for his entry into Jerusalem and how it is our privilege to give whatever is required.
He did make a passing reference to “opening the windows of heaven” but didn’t get into the word “tithe.”
Overall, he is a talented preacher and I was how impressed at how credibly he twisted the scriptures to support his thesis.
All churches need funding. It is my understanding that Martin Luther wanted his state sponsored church to be funded from state coffers. The mixture of the spiritual and the temporal always makes for interesting predicaments. And life goes on…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.