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AmyJ wrote:
So instead of the standard family history sedan, I ended up with an expanded human family school bus.
:thumbup: I ended up with the Flintstones car.
Joseph Smith
Quote:When a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity, so that they cannot be lost, but will be saved by virtue of the covenant of their father and mother.
Brigham Young
Quote:Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.
Lorenzo Snow
Quote:God has fulfilled His promises to us, and our prospects are grand and glorious. Yes, in the next life we will have our wives, and our sons and daughters. If we do not get them all at once, we will have them some time … You that are mourning about your children straying away will have your sons and your daughters. If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions … you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity.
Joseph F. Smith
Quote:We will not finish our work until we have saved ourselves, and then not until we shall have saved all depending upon us; for we are to become saviors upon Mount Zion, as well as Christ. We are called to this mission.
Orson F. Whitney
Quote:You parents of the wilful and the wayward! Don’t give them up. Don’t cast them off. They are not utterly lost. The Shepherd will find his sheep. They were his before they were yours – long before he entrusted them to your care; and you cannot begin to love them as he loves them. They have but strayed in ignorance from the Path of Right, and God is merciful to ignorance. Only the fulness of knowledge brings the fulness of accountability. Our Heavenly Father is far more merciful, infinitely more charitable, than even the best of his servants, and the Everlasting Gospel is mightier in power to save than our narrow finite minds can comprehend.
Quote:The Prophet Joseph Smith declared – and he never taught more comforting doctrine – that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold.
Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.
John J. Carmack
Quote:In 1919 at general conference, Alonzo A. Hinckley, then president of the Deseret Stake of Zion, quoted Elder James E. Talmage of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as follows: “I promise the Saints in the Deseret stake of Zion that if their lives are such that they can look their sons and daughters in the face, and if any of them have gone astray, that the parents are able to say, It is contrary to my instruction and my life’s example; it is against every effort of love, long suffering, faith, prayer and devotion that that boy or girl has gone,’ – I promise you, fathers and mothers, that not one of them shall be lost unless they have sinned away the power to repent” (in Conference Report, October 1919, 161).
Gordon B. Hinckley
Quote:I leave my blessing upon you. May there be … a sense of security and peace and love among your children, precious children every one of them, even those who may have strayed. I hope you don’t lose patience with them; I hope you go on praying for them, and I don’t hesitate to promise that if you do, the Lord will touch their hearts and bring them back to you with love and respect and appreciation.
I love these quotes. I love the comfort they give to parents who may have very little control or influence over the choices of their adult children.
These quotes seem to share some elements with our doctrine that children that die before the age of 8 need no repentance or ordinances but are automatically exalted. Likewise the doctrine of the salvation/exaltation of little children does not make sense by the strictest definitions of agency, personal accountability and consequences. It is an anomaly or contradiction.
A young mother’s baby dies without baptism in the 16th century and she is told that her child is forever doomed to purgatory. The scriptures were clear that nobody can be saved without baptism. The religious leaders of the time were only doing their duty in guarding the straightness of the gate that leads to heaven. We look back at her inconsolable heartache as needless anguish. If only she had known what was revealed in the BoM – that little children need no baptism and the religious leaders of the time, earnest though they were, did not speak for God on this subject.
It saddens me to have these quotes diminished. Who was being hurt by them. They have been around for over 100 years. Were children of temple sealed parents running around in debauchery thinking that they had a golden ticket? A “get out of jail free” card? Yes, there are no free lunches, the piper must always be paid, and the devil demands his pound of flesh BUT is not the GOOD NEWS of Christianity that our God paid the price for our behalf? That God redeemed the sinner and set the captive free?
I worry that sometimes we look at the captives running free and think to ourselves, “That is not right. They
deserveto be in jail for the choices that they made. Just look them! How happy and carefree they are?!?! Let’s go round them up and lock them away again.” ^ Thanks Roy. Love it. And you did a great deal of research I now won’t have to do. They asked for a talk on family history and the temple and by golly they’re going to get one like they’ve never heard before! (as sure as the sun rose over yonder mountain) Roy wrote:
It saddens me to have these quotes diminished. Who was being hurt by them. They have been around for over 100 years. Were children of temple sealed parents running around in debauchery thinking that they had a golden ticket? A “get out of jail free” card? Yes, there are no free lunches, the piper must always be paid, and the devil demands his pound of flesh BUT is not the GOOD NEWS of Christianity that our God paid the price for our behalf? That God redeemed the sinner and set the captive free?I worry that sometimes we look at the captives running free and think to ourselves, “That is not right. They
deserveto be in jail for the choices that they made. Just look them! How happy and carefree they are?!?! Let’s go round them up and lock them away again.”
Awesome quotes Roy. I love the feeling behind them. But as a follow up question, what’s the point? I mean, if this life is supposed to be a teaching experience to make us Christ-like, celestial beings, but we can all “come around” in the next life, what are we doing here? If this life is a test, but failing doesn’t matter, what’s the point of it?
dande48 wrote:
if this life is supposed to be a teaching experience to make us Christ-like, celestial beings, but we can all “come around” in the next life, what are we doing here? If this life is a test, but failing doesn’t matter, what’s the point of it?
The answer is, of course, 42!
1) This question applies equally to children that die before the age of eight. “If this life is a test, but [not being tested] doesn’t matter, what’s the point of it?”
2) I am not convinced that active LDS members are necessarily more Christ-like than non-members (especially if those non-members belong to their own religious and/or charity organizations). Nor am I convinced that the promise of a huge reward at the end of it all is the most helpful to promoting Christ-like attitudes. I am sure that we would all enjoy the moment where all those that mocked us in this life are made into our ministering servants for eternity, but is that the sort of motivation that builds celestial character? Doing good things for less than altruistic reasons is still good – just not celestial. If the purpose of life is to make us into Christ-like, celestial beings then using the temple recommend as a shorthand for worthiness is potentially flawed.
3) Finally, I feel that religion works best when it helps us to cope with the vissisitudes of life. I believe the afterlife (as a concept) was developed to serve the challenges found in this life rather than the challenges in this life being developed to prepare us for the afterlife. When a religion produces worry, fear, anxiety, anguish, heartache, despair, and a sense of permanent loss – I feel that particular religion is being less helpful than I would like.
dande48 wrote:
Awesome quotes Roy. I love the feeling behind them. But as a follow up question, what’s the point? I mean, if this life is supposed to be a teaching experience to make us Christ-like, celestial beings, but we can all “come around” in the next life, what are we doing here? If this life is a test, but failing doesn’t matter, what’s the point of it?A very plausible answer is that this life isn’t a test at all. Why does God need to test us and/or why would God test us?
I subscribe to the idea this life gives us experience we may not have been able to gain in another way, but I don’t believe it is a test.
PS I don’t think Nephi (the first) and I would get along very well and I likewise don’t think Alma and I would get along very well.
PPS Of course the actual answer is indeed 42
Roy wrote:
The answer is, of course, 42!
DarkJedi wrote:
PPS Of course the actual answer is indeed 42
Douglas Adams wrote:“The answer to this is very simple. It was a joke. It had to be a number, an ordinary, smallish number, and I chose that one. Binary representations, base 13, Tibetan monks are all complete nonsense. I sat on my desk, stared in to the garden and thought 42 will do. I typed it out. End of story.”
DarkJedi wrote:
I subscribe to the idea this life gives us experience we may not have been able to gain in another way, but I don’t believe it is a test.
Maybe life is kind of like University, for those who went to get a degree. There were tests at some times…but university wasn’t all a big test. It wasn’t all classes and reading, though it was some of that as well. It was an experience. Right?
dande48 wrote:
Douglas Adams wrote:“The answer to this is very simple. It was a joke. It had to be a number, an ordinary, smallish number, and I chose that one. Binary representations, base 13, Tibetan monks are all complete nonsense. I sat on my desk, stared in to the garden and thought 42 will do. I typed it out. End of story.”
Perfect response.
I wonder if much of God’s response to us in the next life will be along those lines…where we all went crazy trying to figure out religion and rules and meaning and symbolism behind it all…and it was all a bit more simple, and random…because that will do in order to give us our experience here on earth.
In thinking of wayward children…if parents could accept that possibility a little more…perhaps it alleviates some stress they are so “wayward.” I mean, if a parent finds out a child smokes pot…you can freak out about it…or maybe it won’t matter in the end as they grow up and mature and figure out life on their own path, without fear of God striking you down with a lightening bolt.
42.
I like it. We misinterpret many things because we over complicate life. Perhaps we can learn from the dolphins who never started wars or destroyed the environment,
Quote:so long, and thanks for all the fish
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