- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I’ve been thinking a lott about being a member of The Church. I am (basically) a member of the “Millenium” (year 2000) era. Maybe in 300 years that is what they will call “US”. Judging on the way The Church treats its History, which in large part is the members (well maybe leaders?)-Is it something you would want to be a part of? It reminds me of BY’s wives, JS’s wives – who are picked apart to the point of downright denial or “JUST” a spiritual wive. There are things unacknowledged – left out – ignored – degraded. Will the same fate be for us? Will the members of The Future
💡 I also wanted to add – We have all heard it! “What has happened in past has nothing to do with our salvation”. – This commonly used line just makes me believe twice as hard that IT REALLY MEANS everything! Which kind of makes me think .. Well I’m a person, I’ve done bad things in my past, I don’t want to be judged by my past I want to be judged on my present self. But it is so different with an organization! You could brake it down to JS I guess (The Church being what it says it is and all) BUT my conscience is SO very very uneasy on trusting him-it is something I can just no longer deny.
Good point. But I don’t believe the future leaders of the church will have the luxury of sugar coating history. Information is just too accessible. Even the current leaders cannot stop the flow of information. I am TBM, but I have told DH that I want to make sure that our children are not kept in the dark. I don’t want them blind sided with information about the church that would be hurtful to them if they learned it from someone other than us. I don’t want them to have the “expose” version, but rather a slow drip of information weaved into their normal religious training. I believe that the leaders of the church are going to have to start addressing many of these issues because the upcoming generation is completely digital. When they have a question, they turn to google. All the untold information about the church’s past is only a few mouse clicks away……The leaders are going to have to start facing this issue, if only so they put their spin on it.
Pinkpatent, I hope you listen to John Dehlin’s interview of Tom Kimball regarding Fowler’s stages of faith. You kids may not be ready for some of this, and you may end up doing more damage by introducing some of this information before they are ready. I really think you should listen to that podcast. If they aren’t ready for complex thinking, you may actually turn them away from God altogether.
Thanks for the concern, MH. Not to worry. When I say a slow drip, I mean a SLOW drip. Mostly, just the idea that prophets (JS included) are people, just like us. They can guide us, but we have to work to find our pathway back to Heavenly Father. Stuff like that. My husband is staying involved and active in the church so that our childrens’ LDS world (and mine) remain intact. I grew up in a pretty open minded household. So, alot of the stuff that upsets people is not that big of a deal to me. I just want to make sure that MY household is just as open minded so that my children will be ready for what comes their way. Anyway, thanks for the advice. DH and I are breaking new ground and need all the input, help and friendship we can get!
Hey Lalalove, I take great wisdom from the words of Richard Bushman when he says he feels it would not be wise to leave anything that promotes goodness. If the Mormon church makes you a better soul, what’s wrong with that? God created mountains, fields and oceans. He did not create churches or temples. Don’t expect perfection, expect faults. Christ saved us because we need saving. That’s how I see it.
All churches have evolved. The Mormon church, more noticeably-so because it is so young. Unless the Second Coming occurs soon (a belief held by every single Christian church for the last 1800 years), there will be divisions in eras of theological evolution. We are imperfect and sometimes foolish and have good intentions that usually don’t lead us to the best of places. We must do our best with what we have. I seriously doubt God has revealed it
allto us. Perhaps those of us here naturally take a more serious look at life, which has brought us to a sometimes difficult place in our relationship with the church as we seek to assimilate the changes in our faith. In that light, the thought that I am History is a very sobering one to me. How will history judge us? Am I true to my testimonies? Am I progressing enough? Am I caring enough? Are my ripples in life’s pond ripples of light? Balancing the potential for a better, happier church that embodies more fully the plain and precious testimony of Jesus and his Teachings on the one hand with the desire to bring “peace in church, not a sword” on the other hand is a grave commission. Perhaps just being there with my testimonies bright is 80% of it.
Quote:Eighty percent of life is showing up.
Tom
I’ve said often that I try to see others from the past the same way I hope they see me – stupid and clumsy and wrong oh so many times, but sincere and loving and kind and trying my best. I really do think that describes the VAST majority of people, and I’d rather be wrong with this view about individuals than be wrong with a more condemning view – since it really isn’t about them in the end but rather about how my perspective affects who I become. Old-Timer wrote:I’ve said often that I try to see others from the past the same way I hope they see me – stupid and clumsy and wrong oh so many times, but sincere and loving and kind and trying my best. I really do think that describes the VAST majority of people, and I’d rather be wrong with this view about individuals than be wrong with a more condemning view – since it really isn’t about them in the end but rather about how my perspective affects who I become.
Ray I appreciate your view on this. The one big difference I see however, is that you aren’t claiming to be a savior, or claiming to be starting a new religion, or claiming to have found a set of Gold Plates and writing a book, or claiming to have any definitive answers to life’s problems. Those who preach most aggressively, self-assured of their ideas are the ones that are judged most harshly. And if those people have led others astray (or so we perceive), we still may be wrong to judge them, but certainly we can make judgements about whether or not to believe them.If I am history, I want to be remembered for questioning, always looking for some answers, skeptical when skepticism is warranted based on experience and history, but believing when moved to by some transcendent god. I do not want others to agree with me, but enjoy their cognitive diversity. I hope people recognize me as being satisfied with my position as just another voice in the collective wisdom of the human race.
I think the outrageous claims, of course, will be put under a microscope for the world to see. Thinking about all of this has made me realize how very very important it is to have some type of journal. I’m not a celebrity , I have no intention of starting a religion – My beliefs are pretty personal for the most part. My family – Daughters, Sons and Grandchildren should know My History – My History needs to be seperate from Church History – Simply b/c I am an individual. I don’t want my children to wonder what Mom – Grandma w/e thought about things going on in the world, going on at Church. The Church can have it’s History – But My History is different – My History is seperate from an organizations case closed – “This is what we all believe” attitude. Thanks for all of the insight everyone. Pinkpatent said….I believe that the leaders of the church are going to have to start addressing many of these issues because the upcoming generation is completely digital. When they have a question, they turn to google. All the untold information about the church’s past is only a few mouse clicks away……The leaders are going to have to start facing this issue, if only so they put their spin on it. I just love being flabergasted, I have learned it almost always shows It is myself who needs growth in understanding where someone else is at. And that I can nearly always benifeit from rewriting my first response. Lets see if I can give the moderators a break on this one.
#1, When they have a question, they turn to google…Response…the old fashioned way used to be study, prayer, seek the help of the spirit, talk to spiritual people you trust.
#2, The leaders are going to have to start facing this issue,..Response…seems to suggest the leaders are not currently facing this issue. For my taste, if I were to lose confidence in our leaders, whats left?
jeriboy, I think there is a BIG difference between accepting leaders as inspired leaders (and even apostles and prophets) and turning that into infallibility – which is the main thing that I think drives much of the angst among those who are struggling. I think all who have found reconciliation and a degree of peace in their activitiy / involvement have had to address that – and there are lots of ways to do so without ending up at either extreme (total acceptance of every word as directly from the mouth of God OR total rejection of every word as not from God). I LOVE living in the muddle in the middle, but it is a muddle at times. Opposition in all things and all that . . .
I love you Ray! Jeriboy, I understand how you feel. I would love to think that my children will turn to me, or a church leader, when questions arise. But the fact is, that will NOT always be the case. My DH wasn’t even looking for “issues” with the church’s history. He was researching poygamy. He was confused as to why the church was so involved with Prop 8, when mormons should have been the last people inviting government control of marriage. Well, he found alot more than he was looking for. He is now a disaffected, but active LDS. He remains active in order to support our family.
I, on the other hand, am more willing to accept the messy church history without becoming disaffected. I love the church and would never want another, but at the same time, I refuse to believe that I am less mormon if I dance to a slightly different tune. An orchestra needs more than violins, so just think of me as an oboe…..
pinkpatent wrote:An orchestra needs more than violins, so just think of me as an oboe…..
Hey, I’m a timpani!!
OK, everyone, tell us what instrument you are! BTW, Orson, I love timpani! Considering where I’m from, I’d have to say: BANJO!!! 😆 😆 😆 Do they say YEEEEHAAWWW!!! at the orchestra?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.