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  • #205943
    Anonymous
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    Quote:

    (Buddhist value: Like a lotus flower that grows out of the mud and blossoms above the muddy water surface, we can rise above our defilements and sufferings of life)

    Imagine that you are a lotus seed buried beneath a muddy lotus pond. There is mud all around you, and you can feel them clearly. Above you, above this muddy pool of dirt, mud and filth, are sunshine and air. You are not disheartened as you begin your journey towards the surface.

    With a determined heart, you begin to wiggle in the earth. You grow roots deep, deep into the mud. Your little stem grows up slowly. Suddenly, “pop” you are out of the mud! Your stem grows higher and higher, taller and taller. You rise up slowly, fighting against the muddy water. All of a sudden, you are out of the muddy pond! You reach up towards the warm sun, shining down on you.

    Your lotus bud begins to grow on top of your stem. It expands and grows larger and larger, finally bursting into full bloom. A white lotus flower. You stand beautifully above the muddy water, not dirtied by the mud from which you grow. You are white, fragrant and beautiful.

    Everyone who saw you marvelled at your beauty! Your determination to grow out of the muddy pond reminds them of the Buddha and his journey towards Enlightenment. The Buddha, like a lotus, is determined to grow out of the muddy surroundings, that is the defilements and sufferings of life. He has done all that is to be done and he is showing us that we can all do it too. We may have defilements but we all have the potential of growing out of our defilements and achieving wisdom, like the Buddha.

    You are a beautiful white lotus flower, and your role is to remind people to rise above their defilements and sufferings, just as you are arising above the muddy water and not dirtied by the mud from which you grow.

    I found this teaching inspiring for me. Times in my life when I feel “at the end of my rope” I have turned to the Lord in prayer, hoping (and expecting) the Lord would intervene to show me how to overcome my trials. But mostly, I end up feeling my prayers are unanswered, and my trials are still there to be dealt with.

    This Buddhist teaching brings me some peace, and reminds me that if I stay determined, I can grow out of my struggles. I do not think I will be left to suffocate in the mud.

    If others have any thoughts or experiences on this line of thinking, I’d appreciate hearing from you on them.

    #243676
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I enjoyed reading that passage, but its inspiration is moderated by my own knowledge that some never overcome their suffering in this life. Some people have to learn to accept life in the mud.

    #243677
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for your honesty, even if that wasn’t the support I was hoping for :(

    Perhaps life in the mud lasts longer than I want….but I still have hope there may be some seasons where I can bloom, even if for short periods???? I still am determined to find those seasons.

    #243678
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I guess it depends how you look at it. Do we all need to be flowers? Can you find happiness as a earthworm?

    Also, what is wrong with being in the dirt? Is it just looking up at the flowers and wondering why you aren’t there too? I imagine the flowers look pretty lowly to the tall oak tree. And consider that neither the flower nor the tree could not exist without dirt to support its roots. The problem is often just a matter of perspective and comparison. I would imagine if you looked closely at your life you would find you are already at least in the position of the flower, if not greater.

    #243679
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brown wrote:

    I imagine the flowers look pretty lowly to the tall oak tree. And consider that neither the flower nor the tree could not exist without dirt to support its roots.


    Ooh. This is very profound, Brown. Something for me to ponder!

    #243680
    Anonymous
    Guest

    From that literal perspective, the Good News is that suffering can end even while I’m buried in the dirt. Situation doesn’t have to govern spiritual state. Nearly all suffering is an internal malfunction.

    #243681
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brown wrote:

    I enjoyed reading that passage, but its inspiration is moderated by my own knowledge that some never overcome their suffering in this life. Some people have to learn to accept life in the mud.

    I am reminded of the analogy of suffering/adversity as a sharpening stone, it can either break you or make you stronger/sharper. While I still see that as true, what I currently disagree with is the underlying assumption that we have unlimited freedom to choose whether to break or become stronger. Perhaps this is akin to the idea that the Lord will not try you above your ability to overcome. But if you were facing adversity beyond your ability to overcome, how would you know. Do we assume that every challenge is surmountable and that the only variable is the amount of effort expended by the challenger? I recognize that there is a fine line between sympathy and excusing failure, but having been disappointed the “you make your own destiny and get what you deserve” side of the coin, this is where I find myself. Is there a better way, a more balanced way? I don’t know. I continue to be a work in progress.

    Victor Frankl wrote:

    We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.


    I have read Mr. Frankl’s book and heard this quote used over the pulpit many times. What inspiration, what a marvel, how admirable are these men who were seemingly never discouraged, never compromising. But this does not prove that such a thing is possible for all, that the difference between the saints and the masses was merely the decision of how to respond. It does not prove that the much larger group of men that did not respond to the bleak situation in this manner were somehow underperforming on their potential.

    There is a female LDS singer that has made a bit of a name for herself by singing about grief. In one part of her book she talks about the suffocating, oppressive, despairing grief. She discusses how sometimes it is unprofitable to try to view the big picture. Sometimes the big picture is pain, and death, and suffering. She says there can be value in just feeling the warmth of a cup of hot cocoa, losing oneself in the aroma, taking pleasure in the taste. Maybe that’s all you can give. There is no shame in that. Later in the book she discusses hope and moving forward but I was impressed that she didn’t patronize the sufferer, didn’t try to dismiss the suffering as a figment of the imagination, a lack of faith, or being too lazy to rise above. This gave her credibility in my eyes.

    Heber, I am confident that God doesn’t expect you to emerge unscathed “by the mud from which you grow.” He doesn’t expect you to be untouchable, undaunted, and immovable. Perhaps some of us can, but if this is not your gift – bless those around you by being you and giving the gift of yourself.

    #243682
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks Roy. You are a saint.

    #243683
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber13 wrote:

    Thanks Roy. You are a saint.

    Thanks Heber. If you define “saint” as one who strives to follow divine principles daily, then I accept. :angel: I am grateful for this community. I have been helped to find new meaning and joy in my integration within the body of saints. You were among those that first welcomed me here, now it is time to “pay it forward.” :D

    #243684
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brown wrote:

    I guess it depends how you look at it. Do we all need to be flowers? Can you find happiness as a earthworm?

    Also, what is wrong with being in the dirt? Is it just looking up at the flowers and wondering why you aren’t there too? I imagine the flowers look pretty lowly to the tall oak tree. And consider that neither the flower nor the tree could not exist without dirt to support its roots. The problem is often just a matter of perspective and comparison. I would imagine if you looked closely at your life you would find you are already at least in the position of the flower, if not greater.

    I absolutely love what you have written here. In my mind this is so true and I totally agree that we are already in the role of the flower. I am totally fascinated by flowers because you can say things without using words just by giving flowers. By giving flowers you can make someone you love happy and tell him or her that you think of them. Most of my friends and family do not live nearby me so I love to send flowers in UK in order to make them happy. Due to this I am totally happy to be in the role of the flower like you wrote in your post. ^^

    #243685
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The four noble truths have helped me a great deal. They make far more sense than anything taught in our culture…not doctrine, because I think the four noble truths are actually in our doctrine just over looked. I have to say I have found a good deal of truth in Buddhism. The one that shocked me the most was the Tibetan Book of the Dead…which has a good deal of our temple information in it, even though it is thousands of years old.

    As for suffering…I take the Buddhist view on it completely…suffering brings us closer to God. Suffering is due to our cravings for outside validation, which never comes, it comes from inside. I think that is the point of the Lotus Flower in the mud, at least it is to me. The flower is a flower and has to know that even though it’s in the middle of mud…it is not the mud. Neither is the mud a flower. Neither is the earth worm mud or a flower. All are important, but we must find what we are, and be that. Only then will be find happiness. It’s our longings that bring us suffering.

    There is a difference between being in pain and suffering. We can be in pain and not suffer… And I know that probably doesn’t make sense, and I don’t think I am able to explain it.

    #243686
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Arwen, you said that very well. We do need to know who we are, and that we can rise above suffering. I think we are meant to grow. I do not think we are worms. They have their purpose, but that is not our purpose.

    Because we are in the mud, and worms are in the mud, we are not the same. We respect the worms for their role. But it is in us to rise above, while understanding we do not need to loath the mud from which we rise. Indeed, the Savior taught (see Matthew 13:5-6) if we were not planted in the mud, but in stony places, we would not have healthy, deep roots to sustain us.

    But it is in us, as it is in the lotus seed, to rise and bloom.

    Thanks for sharing thoughts, Arwen.

    #243687
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m checking in and trying to catch up, so I don’t have a lot of time, but I just want to say how much I LOVE this thread!!

    #243688
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like Roy’s mentioned of “Man’s Search for Meaning.”

    Suffering is pain without meaning.

    I keep thinking of the serenity prayer…

    “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

    Courage to change the things I can,

    And wisdom to know the difference.”

    To me, this sums up love.

    Love is the courage to strive for what’s best and acceptance when what’s best is beyond our control.

    We’re aware of little compared to what there is to be aware about… & things will work out for the best, eventually.

    This is why pure love never fails!

    People (or what I think they think of me) have been a source of pain for me.

    I take things to heart too much… I often felt I was too sensitive for this world.

    But I’m beginning to realize that either someone has love or they don’t.

    Love is like the spiritual (& social) monetary system. You can’t get all upset if somebody living in the African bush doesn’t have money. You can try to do something to help, but getting upset beyond what would help, is pointless. So it is when people show a lack of love. They are poor in love. It is what it is… Circumstances & their choices led up to them with little love, or not knowing how to express it (which is like being poor in it). If I expect little (especially of people famous for hurting me), I’m less often disappointed.

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