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Liz Johnson wrote a stunning post on By Common Consent yesterday about Heavenly Mother. (“Reaching For Her” – http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/03/05/reaching-for-her/ ) I HIGHLY recommend it to everyone here. A few of the comments disappointed me greatly, but one in particular (#57, by Thomas Parkin) really resonated with me. I am quoting it here for all of you:Quote:“we don’t know everything.”
“We” don’t know anything. There is no such thing as what “we” know, since “we” is not at agent that can possess knowledge. I have brought this up several times, and mean to do it every chance I get, however quixotic it might begin to seem. I think it is important because the idea that this is something _we_ should or even can come to know collectively steers us badly. It may cause us to hesitate where we need not, or become overly sure of ourselves where we ought not.
Knowledge, of Heavenly Mother, Heavenly Father, or any other matter in the cosmos, is an individual project. In fact, while we may speculate together, and frame the discussion in beneficial ways, knowledge comes to us personally, individually, through direct experience, as we individually apply our selves to the end of gaining it. The “church” provides some context, importantly provides and protects the ordinances through which mysteries can be revealed, provides scriptures that can be both touchstones and portals, and, at least in theory, a body of believers engaged in the same project. But each person stands individually, not along a linear path that ends in knowledge but at a point in a three dimensional space where the center point towards which all seekers move represents all knowledge. There is no such thing as forbidden knowledge, and we are more than invited to seek.
The key scripture, to my mind, is Alma 12: “It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him … ” It seems to me the thing learned here is that it is possible for any person to come to know the mysteries, but that those who know them will not generally be found speaking about them. (In this, may I say how important for me it has been to have deeply trusted friends, especially my own dad, with whom I do feel I can openly speak. I highly recommend finding such people.)
I’d really like to say that I believe that I have received revelation concerning Heavenly Mother, and that I believe this is not an uncommon thing. I find all the information that I’ve come to know about God through the Spirit deeply comforting, including information about Heavenly Mother. None of this has ever happened because I’m a very good person, because I am not a very good person. When I look back at my life I see that I produce pain and discomfort everywhere I go. Also, no one is ever going to mistake me for a typical orthodox Mormon. But these revelations have almost invariably come to me at times in my life when I have been taking my covenants very seriously, when I have been actively trying to do what we promise in the Sacrament: to remember Christ and keep His commandments in order to obtain the Holy Spirit, which is the only way these revelations can come to us. For me, “commandments” primarily means having Faith in Jesus as best as I understand Him, repenting or trying to actively improve myself in any number of ways, including improving in knowledge, and trying to conform myself to the kind of person that is presented in the Sermon on the Mount and in the parables and elsewhere in His teachings. In addition, the commandments of God to me are those personal directives that come to me through the Spirit. This in place, they have come at times when I have actively gone and sought.
Also, they have not always come, we are only ready for those things that lie just over whatever our personal horizon is. This wisdom in what we don’t receive sometimes doesn’t become obvious for a long time. In such cases, I try to recall the comfort of what I have received. Nor is any revelation the final word on any subject. While each is comforting, more is always needed, and new light always casts a different aspect on old information. I think the directive is to hunger and thirst for it.
Nor are my personal experiences a measuring stick for any other person. Every person is in their own place, with their individual histories and horizons.
I understand that there is a desire for some kind of official statement or pronouncement of doctrine – but may I suggest that this would not quench the desire, since the desire lies in the soul and is not an academic matter and can’t be satisfied by hearing people’s opinions on the matter. In any case, waiting may mean waiting till doomsday, when there is no need to wait.
Do girls yearn for the comfort of their comfort of their mothers more than boys? I doubt that very much. To girls delight less in the approval of their fathers than boys? Maybe not important questions. I feel quite sure the comfort will come when we are ready for it.
thanks for this. the original post by liz referred to above in your link was amazing. I have been pondering this quote above and the original post from the link above for a couple days. This particular part continues to strike me over and over as I read it
Quote:I understand that there is a desire for some kind of official statement or pronouncement of doctrine –
but may I suggest that this would not quench the desire, since the desire lies in the soul and is not an academic matter and can’t be satisfied by hearing people’s opinions on the matter. In any case, waiting may mean waiting till doomsday, when there is no need to wait. [Emphasis mine]
I have a constant and unquenched desire to “know” more. Even after finding answers that feel right to me, there is more to learn, deeper meaning to find, greater understanding to gain.
I yearn for more doctrine of Heavenly Mother.
I also agree that collectively we don’t know anything. I wonder some times if individually we “know” anything, or if individually we “know enough” for things to be useful in our lives, even if it is not certain. Perhaps this is why it often rubs some of us the wrong way to hear “I know” professed over the pulpit, when it doesn’t seem exactly right to be able to hear that.
Okay I had to check the stamp date on that one, just to make sure. Well if I must say, I agree with that long, long quote. And I disagree. Thought 1: I think we do know certain things. We do not know as in “We haven’t seen it with our very eyes”, but there are certain things that I certainly believe We do know.
We do know we need salvation for example. There is one.
Of course, you can argue there are many people out there who do not know they need salvation. And of course that is true. But if we are talking about the Church, collectively, I think there are things that Christ has given us common knowledge on, and that are true. We know there is a Godhead. We may not be certain of the Godhead at times, but we know there is one. We know that there are those we call prophets and apostles. Okay now I finally fledged them out.
Thought 2: To what I agree with. I do agree that maybe somethings what we think we know to be 100% certain are the things we are wrong on. Since I have this thought, I am most often to second, triple, quadruple guess myself a lot.
Something I find myself needing to work on, in order to say in the Church.
Tangent thought: I for one, do say I know certain things in my testimony, probably drives some people insane. I think though, if we are talking about individual testimonies. I know is more personal, they have come to know that truth.
Thought 3: I remember the time where I gave testimony of Heavenly Mother. Only once. I was thanked for it by one person, my home teacher. But I think it left a mark. Even if people may have forgotten about it by now. Some may not have.
Conclusion: So collectively we know somethings, but we don’t know anything for 100% certain. We may know it basically exists. But we can’t say it exists exactly the way we envision.
Tangent thought: I myself though am still learning how to receive personal revelation, and how is the best way to state it in church. I want to. I do agree with the premise in the article to find people to confide personal revelation in. Unfortunately, people don’t really ever respond to that except nodding their heads. Sometimes that bugs me.
Okay. That’s me and my thoughts. I decided to number this, so my thoughts don’t seem so sporadic.
Yeah, there really is a lot to chew on in the post and comment. I find myself going back to both occasionally, without prior consideration, and just having the ideas flow through me again. I really like it when I find things that do that – come back unbidden and continue to enlighten.
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