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I posted this because the topic is weird stuff that is no way true. And I think it fits the definition. There just can be no way that it is true if the “Gospel” according to Jesus Christ is “true.” If there comes a time when I have to pick between the church and the Gospel…I’m going to pick the Gospel. That is the path I choose.
As a staylds member…as lousy as I am…the church leadership needs to understand (and I think they are trying) that our generation and Gen Xbox will choose loyalty to the Gospel over loyalty to the church if push comes to shove. The guardians have had their turn…now is the hour of the idealists.
There is a spiritual recession happening…in all religions. The losses are staggering…and yet churches still blame the people…being lazy and wicked… and refuse to accept any responsiblilty.
Like wayfarer said, either the churches will recognize and address the issues (more so than they are doing now) or the church will go bankrupt. IMO of course.
I have little hope left for Gen X…but perhaps they can salvage the church for Gen Xbox if they will only listen to the spirit and their own prophets.
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I understand and agree, cwald. I just wanted to discuss it in more detail in a different post. Old-Timer wrote:Fwiw, wayfarer, I am comfortable with that wording relative to local leaders and congregations and with some individual upper-level leaders but not relative to the top leaders, especially under Pres. Monson’s leadership. Yes, there are groups who still are being pushed out unnecessarily, but I believe strongly that the “meek, wounded of spirit and needy” are not being pushed out at that level.
The term I used was “moral legitimacy”, as apposed to “moral authority”. I am not questioning the ‘authority’ of the church leadership. My concern is around legitimacy — the concept that they are acting as legitimate brokers of morality. There has never been a statement by the authorities anywhere in top leadership that ‘the sin next to murder’ is anything but sexual immorality in all of its forms. Absent explicit statements to the contrary, pornography and masturbation are implicitly equated with forcible rape of children and subsequent sale of one’s own children into child prostitution. yes, this example is extreme, and it is in no way true, but consider this: when a young man feels his looking at pornography once a month or so and subsequent masturbation is so sinful so as to be ‘next to murder’, and the guilt destroys his life one way or another… I think this loses perspective, don’t you?And when the top church leaders do not explicitly stop local leaders from abusing members with life-destroying guilt, then I would say they have lost moral legitimacy.
Don’t get me wrong: I love these men — the first presidency, particularly. I think they have a very hard job to do to rid the church of religious abuse, and the time has come for them to do it. It isn’t up to me to force that point, nor to complain, but there is a consequence in tacet acceptance of religious abuse.
So. First time I went back to church since I heard this, Quote:“abuse and rape victims have to suffer as much pain as the abuser or rapists in order to fulfill the requirements of repentance.”
I was sickened by the announcement that the person who said this, was to be the speaker for SM that day. I groaned.
The old lady gave a talk on charity…just pretty damn good…gospel centered. Universal even. Surprised me coming from a TBM during SM…especially this TBM.
I don’t ever want to be accused of being a rabid anti bias apostate. Fair. Rational. Willing to be open and fair about the issues. If folks would just acknowledge that…they can call me apostate all they want.
cwald wrote:So. First time I went back to church since I heard this,
Quote:“abuse and rape victims have to suffer as much pain as the abuser or rapists in order to fulfill the requirements of repentance.”
I was sickened by the announcement that the person who said this, was to be the speaker for SM that day. I groaned.
The old lady gave a talk on charity…just pretty damn good…gospel centered. Universal even. Surprised me coming from a TBM during SM…especially this TBM.
I don’t ever want to be accused of being a rabid anti bias apostate. Fair. Rational. Willing to be open and fair about the issues. If folks would just acknowledge that…they can call me apostate all they want.
Love your posts cwald. They have a tangible integrity to them
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