What are the implications of not paying tithing?

[Anonymous]

Sheldon wrote:

Roy wrote:

SilentDawning wrote:

Sheldon — that article is way too long and verbose for me….do you have a quick comment or expose on what the point is of it?

The condensed version of the article is that tithing on surplus, profit, gain, extra, or growth may be a tithing method with some historical support.

Yes, you pay tithing on what is left over after you’ve paid all your bills (the surplus)

It’s the only way to do it IMHO.

[Anonymous]

I think the ‘No one is justified in making any other statement than this” applies here. I don’t pay on gross and never have, and what I pay has changed over time. Bottom line is that it’s up to each of us and what we feel comfortable with and it’s nobody else’s business.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I think the ‘No one is justified in making any other statement than this” applies here. I don’t pay on gross and never have, and what I pay has changed over time. Bottom line is that it’s up to each of us and what we feel comfortable with and it’s nobody else’s business.

Interesting that subsequent prophets didn’t seem to get the “no one is justified in making any other statement than this” pronouncement from the FP who wrote the 1970’s letter on the topic. Howard W. Hunter went so far as to describe what it was in more detail, and so have Bishops I have known (payment on gross).

Ultimately, no one is going to audit your books, so it is a matter of conscience…

[Anonymous]

The only issue with paying on excess, to me, is that it leaves open the possibility or likelihood that someone will calculate their expenses to include everything they spend, not just necessities.

If you include credit card payments, dinners at restaurants, ball games, movie tickets, vacation costs, etc. prior to paying tithing, I would say you aren’t trying to embrace the spirit of the law at all.

[Anonymous]

I’ve posted about this before. This is from the church’s handbook from 1963.

General Church Handbook; Number 19 1963; page 67 wrote:

What Is a Tithe? A tithe is one-tenth of a wage earner’s gross income; a tithe is one-tenth of a professional man’s income after deducting standard business expenses; a tithe is one-tenth of a farmer’s income after deducting standard business operating expenses. A farmer should not include as standard business operating expense the produce which is used to sustain his family. A tithe is one-tenth of an individual’s interest.

All emphasis (italics and bold) as present in the original document.

We all know about the policy that superseded it in the first presidency letter in 1970. My only point is that at one point in time tithing on gross for a wage earner was a thing, and you know how things happen at church… when there’s a change in policy there’s seldom any effort to correct the old way of thinking, we often rely on the passage of time to kill old policy and leaders are often more familiar with the rules that were in place when they were young, so that’s what they teach and enforce.

For the first 20 years of membership in this church I had only ever heard payment on gross was acceptable. We even had lessons where mock pay stubs were handed out and class members were to calculate the full tithe, where the only correct answer was on gross. In those 20 years not once did I hear someone in the class challenge the idea, never did anyone go down the “between you and the lord” route or the “no one is justified” route. I chanced upon alternate methods other than gross as being an acceptable full tithe in my own personal studies. Up until then I always thought that you couldn’t answer “yes” to the question about whether you were a full tithe payer during tithing settlement if you paid so much as one cent less than 10% of gross.

So now I’ll be the one to raise the current policy in future lessons on tithing… because I still have yet to hear someone do it.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

I’ve posted about this before. This is from the church’s handbook from 1963.

General Church Handbook; Number 19 1963; page 67 wrote:

What Is a Tithe? A tithe is one-tenth of a wage earner’s gross income; a tithe is one-tenth of a professional man’s income after deducting standard business expenses; a tithe is one-tenth of a farmer’s income after deducting standard business operating expenses. A farmer should not include as standard business operating expense the produce which is used to sustain his family. A tithe is one-tenth of an individual’s interest.

All emphasis (italics and bold) as present in the original document.

For me, it is a point of what does the “gross” stand for these days.

I grew up with the definition of “gross” for tithing as 10% of my paycheck BEFORE taxes (and health insurance) came out OR the first bill to be paid AFTER you got your paycheck (the 1 cent on 10 cents teaching in Primary). For what it is worth, the U.S. government defines it as what is left of the paycheck AFTER taxes (and health insurance) have come out.

Since there is a several hundred dollar difference between the 2 “gross” estimates – it gets interesting. This is compounded by the fact that as near as I can tell, no leader has acknowledged the dilemma even exists (that I know of) as a rational construct (whenever I bring it up I am given weird looks for what is a logical question and shot down for wanting to “rob God” by thinking of asking the question for clarification) …

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