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So along these lines, I have a question. How many people do you think buy into this idea:
Quote:“I feel the spirit as I hear this poem in Relief Society, therefore plural marriage was holy or [insert any True Church extrapolation].”
The majority of Mormons, the minority? Are we here because we are all agreeing that the above reasoning is fallacious? I am asking because honestly, this is what I hear most of the time at F&T meeting.Personally, I think you are right that too many members make that association. However, I don’t think most view plural marraige as “holy” – unless it is in the context of, “Holy Crap, I hope I don’t have to deal with it!” đŸ˜® jmb275 wrote:So along these lines, I have a question. How many people do you think buy into this idea:
Quote:“I feel the spirit as I hear this poem in Relief Society, therefore plural marriage was holy or [insert any True Church extrapolation].”
The majority of Mormons, the minority? Are we here because we are all agreeing that the above reasoning is fallacious? I am asking because honestly, this is what I hear most of the time at F&T meeting.Jmb, I think many members do base their knowledge of principles on a feeling like that. If a story makes them feel good, they associate that with truth and accept it. They probably care less about the process to reason through it or the actual factoids, just believe it and for themselves it helps them strengthen their testimony.
I think most mormons do that rather than take time to care about finding out the truth of sources, and many times I don’t think it is a bad thing.
I suppose the real trouble happens when someone bases their “knowledge” on a feeling, without looking into and examining the facts in detail, when the surface meanings of the stories differ radically from the natural results/consequences of belief in those stories. I think I can better explain what I mean with a couple of examples.
Fictional story 1:
I know that doing a thorough safety check of my tires before a long road trip is true because a friend told me a story about someone’s uncle who heard an angel talk to him once while making a long road trip. He was driving, and an angel’s voice told him to pull over now and check his tires. He didn’t do that. Again, he heard a voice tell him to pull over. He looked around the car, but his wife and all the kids were sound asleep. So he ignored it. Finally a third time, this uncle heard a booming shout “Pull the car over now! I am a messenger from God sent to give warning unto you.”
So this uncle pulled over on the side of the road. He got out of the car to look around, and right then his wheel fell off the car. Had he still been going 75 MPH, the whole family would have died or been seriously injured. I know from this that tire inspections before a long trip on the highway are true.
Fictional Story #2:
I know that Christians will be protected from poisonous serpents by their faith. A friend of mine told me a story about someone’s uncle, and he was protected from poisonous snake bites. He read the Bible every day and prayed for hours at a time. I know this is true because it makes me feel so excited inside to know how powerful faith in God can be.
I’ve been reading the Bible every day for a month now. I also pray for two hours a day. I’m going to get some poisonous snakes next month so they can bite me. I can’t wait to be saved by my faith. I know nothing bad will happen to me because I am doing exactly what the uncle did in this story I heard from my friend.
MY POINT:
The first story is just a good idea regardless of the truth. Most “faith-promoting stories” are like that, or they really have no definite consequences. Did the Three Nephites really get someone lady’s car started on a winter road in a blizzard? Does it matter? Not really. If the story/myth helps motivate people to do good things, there really isn’t a whole lot of harm in it one way or another.
The second story is troubling because someone is going to do something harmful based information that they did not verify involving a real action with serious consequences.
Valoel wrote:The first story is just a good idea regardless of the truth. Most “faith-promoting stories” are like that, or they really have no definite consequences. Did the Three Nephites really get someone lady’s car started on a winter road in a blizzard? Does it matter? Not really. If the story/myth helps motivate people to do good things, there really isn’t a whole lot of harm in it one way or another.
The second story is troubling because someone is going to do something harmful based information that they did not verify involving a real action with serious consequences.
Well said Valoel. It occurred to me while I was still a TBM that many of the so-called “blessings” we have in life, that we attribute to God, are often natural consequences of some common-sensical action. Sort of follows the whole
Quote:There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
I often thought this was like a “well duh” moment. That, to me, doesn’t make them less significant, and doesn’t change that they are blessings.Valoel wrote:Fictional Story #2:
I know that Christians will be protected from poisonous serpents by their faith. A friend of mine told me a story about someone’s uncle, and he was protected from poisonous snake bites.
Quote:
2 Ne 25: 20 And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err. And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth; yea, behold I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven save it be this Jesus Christ, of which I have spoken, whereby man can be savedThat faith promoting story can be supported by this scripture, so it MUST be true! I’m going to buy some snakes.
Ok, not really. Most people exercise sane judgment and wouldn’t go to such extremes, even if the stories are good ones, they’re mostly “feel good” stories, and many are like you said Valoel, they’ re just good judgement anyway so why not do it.
But as we’ve discussed on this site many times about honesty of church leaders, if those stories start to become legendary and accepted as truth, then when the person finds out Paul H Dunn was just elaborating, it stings and can shake the faith, which is why the faith in religion needs to be stronger than depending on these types of stories…even if supported by a scripture of some kind.
Is now a good time to share a faith-promoting ‘miracle’ story I heard just this past Sunday morning(07/19/2009)? It was straight from the lips of President Monson, seriously. He was speaking to a couple thousand people —- one of which was me! HiJolly
You got my attention…please share! I’ll tell you if it is faith promoting for me or not.
Heber13 wrote:You got my attention…please share!
I’ll tell you if it is faith promoting for me or not.
LoL. ok. Keep in mind this is now second hand, and so for sure some details are messed up.He told a story from when he was a mission president in Canada. There was family named Agnew investigating the Church. The wife and kids were being taught by the missionaries, but the husband was not really engaged. When the family decided to go to the LDS church on Sunday for worship services, the father (William) agreed to go, at first.
But when Sunday arrived, there was an argument in the family, and Bill got very angry. He decided not to go to Church with his family. He stayed home alone and stewed and fretted. He couldn’t forget the anger, and so finally decided to go into his daughter’s bedroom to listen to her radio. He figured a news program or somesuch would get his mind off his anger and upset. He turned on the radio, and what should he hear but the Mormon Tabernacle Choir! AND the message that week for the “Music and the Spoken Word” program was “Let Not the Sun Set Upon thy Wrath”. LoL!
Well, he listened and his heart softened. He regretted the conflict and apologized to his family when they got home from Chruch. They were astonished at his change in demeanor and asked “Why the change? What has happened?”
The Dad replied that he had listened to his daughter’s radio and so forth. The daughter said, “But my radio doesn’t work! A couple of tubes blew out on it weeks ago.” Bill didn’t believe his daughter and so the whole family went into her bedroom. Bill switched on the radio to prove his story —- and sure enough, it did not work. It was broken indeed.
Bill listened to the missionaries after that, and was later baptised.
Told as faithfully as I can recall it;
HiJolly
…you had me until the radio was broken. 
Sounds like Bill is out of his ever-loving mind! It was a wonderful story until the radio was revealed to be broken (though there is certainly more going on around us than meets the eye, and I leave it to Heaven to get anyDad to go to anychurch with his family, even by visionary means/daydreams). Can I ask some follow-up questions? What was President Monson’s demeanor and tone of voice in telling this story? He tends to have a twinkle in his eye anyway when he tell his stories. What did you discern?
I agree, great story until the broken part. It didn’t need that since the “coincidence” of the radio show was enough proof that God cares. hawkgrrrl wrote:Sounds like Bill is out of his ever-loving mind!
I nominate this for best statement on StayLDS.com!!jmb275 wrote:hawkgrrrl wrote:Sounds like Bill is out of his ever-loving mind!
I nominate this for best statement on StayLDS.com!!
Seconded!
Btw, my fact-checking bs-detector just blew a gasket. Just like that radio, I guess. Maybe it’ll work on Sunday.
đŸ˜ˆ
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