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I’m not sure how I feel about the visit the bishop made to my house last night. I’ve tried to get to the point where I don’t care so much what others think of me or my views. I love my kids and my wife and believe the church is true (in a broader sense of truth than I used to believe…less literal and more symbolic).
I’ve met with the bishop a few times that he knows my struggles the past year have made it difficult for me to feel the spirit in my life, but I keep striving to learn and grow. I personally feel this is a time in my life to learn and grow through study and practical application of principles, even if spiritual manifestations are not what the Lord feels I need right now.
This bishop has released me from all callings. I’m ok with that, it allows more time to spend with my family.
He came to my house last night and said he felt inspired that if me and my wife make an effort to attend the temple every week, we’d be blessed and so he challenged us to do so.
I accepted the challenge…at least for as long as I can with our schedules until it becomes too burdensome. This past year I have been open to putting lots of ideas to the test and just let what happens happen. I’m ok with another challenge…it can’t be a bad thing, I don’t think.
I don’t know if I should talk to my bishop and tell him I’m doing ok with my current views of church, of if I should ask him what worries him about me, or if I just keep on doing my thing and appreciate his concern without needing to really talk about things.
What does everyone think I should do? If he is concerned enough to make a visit and a challenge, should I do anything about that? Should I find out what the bishop thinks of me? Should I care? What would you do?
I say just take it for what it is. He is concerned and thinking about you. That is nice. It really is. Accept challenges if you think they are something you would like to try. Who knows? It could lead you to something interesting and cool. I get inspiration from other people, whether it is in the way they think or not. If something really isn’t appealing to you, I think you can let him know in a nice and appreciative way.
What valoel said (crap, what Brian said) . . . with one caveat: Fwiw, I really don’t like the culture of “challenging” that is rampant in the Church. I just don’t like the attitude it presents. For example, it’s NOT “Moroni’s challenge”. That word isn’t there. It’s “exhort” and “invite” – not “challenge”.
So, I would turn it into an invitation – since that removes ALL of the “machismo” associated with a “challenge” – and since invitations get turned down all the time when they simply aren’t appropriate. Appropriate invitations, otoh, are seen as a wonderful gesture – even in those times when they still can’t be accepted due to reasonable conflicts.
Hmmm. I do still believe in inspiration and that we are all connected. But, I find that often people can be motivated by self-serving factors (which is fine). Example: The Amway person who felt inspired to tell Sister soandso about the Amway opportunity. Maybe she was for selfless reasons, but maybe it was more about her. Maybe your bishop needs validation that going to the temple really will change someone’s life for the better in the form of blessings. Or maybe he really felt inspired with this idea because he prays for you and think about your situation a lot. Obviously he cares about you. That is wonderful.
Perhaps spending some quiet time every week in the temple will allow you to contemplate things and receive inspiration for your life and family. Maybe the drive time will become a special time for you and your wife to talk about dreams, goals and family concerns.
My DH wants me to attend the temple once a month with him. Oh, and my mom is all about it, too. The sad thing to me is that if we do an endowment we don’t even sit
togetherquietly. Sealing are nice because of the together factor. I really enjoy initiatory but we wouldn’t be together at all. But, I’ll do it for them because it has no adverse effect on me (at least so far). I still appreciate the ancestral bonding, too. Sorry, I’m probably not being helpful. How does your wife feel about it? I’d be more concerned with her feelings than the bish (which I know you
totallyare!). At some point I’m sure he will follow up with you. If he does, that might be the appropriate time to tell him you are at peace with your path.
Brian Johnston wrote:I say just take it for what it is. He is concerned and thinking about you. That is nice. It really is. Accept challenges if you think they are something you would like to try. Who knows? It could lead you to something interesting and cool.
This is my attitude…I hope this can be something good…if it turns out to not be of worth, I can at least say I tried.He was caring about his approach and I felt his sincere concern. I just wonder if he needs to be concerned, but I still appreciate the gesture.
just me wrote:How does your wife feel about it? I’d be more concerned with her feelings than the bish (which I know you totally are!).
My wife was waiting for me to react…she didn’t know what I’d say…but I was fine. She was relieved, she said she felt she really missed going to the temple together and really feels the bishop was inspired to talk to us about it since she was thinking about it a lot.
Even more reason I have no problem going…if it is something that makes her happy, it sounds like a good idea to me.
However, if there is some expectations that others have that I will get some huge revelation and return to my former self…I think they will be disappointed. I will honestly go with an open heart to feel what I can and would love any inspiration that can come to me…I just don’t expect anything different than what I’ve been experiencing the last year or so, which is few answers to prayers but more focus on family peace and realistic thoughts on life’s challenges.
There is a circular logic that if I’m not expecting more direction from on high, it seems unlikely I will receive any despite hopes of my bishop or my wife on what they think I need, even if I feel they don’t really understand me. If I don’t NEED inspiration (I’m fine with my current path), I don’t think I will get some just because others want me to get some or think I need it. I think it is their Stage-3-ness that makes it hard for them to understand me or where I’m at. And that is ok with me, although sometimes it makes me sad I’m not understood better.
I look forward to returning to the temple in hopes it will be a positive thing. If it is not, I’m not sure I will continue to go just because I was “challenged”. I will wait to see if followup raises the need to discuss anything.
Heber13 wrote:This bishop has released me from all callings.
This happened to me too, early on in my current “journey”. The “system” is perpetuating itself, try to see it for what it really is.Heber13 wrote:I personally feel this is a time in my life to learn and grow through study and practical application of principles, even if spiritual manifestations are not what the Lord feels I need right now.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. If you’re saying that you don’t have spiritual manifestations like you used to, I would hesitate to say that that is the Lord refraining from giving you those. Especially if you think of the context of what you used to consider “spiritual manifestations”. I can honestly say that in recent months(even days), I’ve felt the surge of “spiritual manifestation” in some of your posts here. Does that mean that the Lord is using you to give ME “spiritual manifestations” while not extending that to you?You mentioned you have a broader interpretation of what it means for the church to be “true”. Have you thought of the implications of broadening that perspective in what it means practically with respect to “spiritual manifestations”?
Heber13 wrote:He came to my house last night and said he felt inspired that if me and my wife make an effort to attend the temple every week, we’d be blessed and so he challenged us to do so.
Again, recognizing this for what it is, may bring you peace around the subject. What Ray said was right on, imo. I think that there’s more potential harm than good in these “challenges”. What if you have a horrible experience? Or your life is suddenly met with unforeseen difficulties? Is that a blessing or a curse? I’m being a little cynical to demonstrate my point: setting up a system wherein “good deeds” are “rewarded” and “bad deeds” are “punished” is an extremely tricky game where manipulation, both internal and external, can invalidate our own true feelings and intentions.iow, are you going to the temple to meet the challenge? Are you going to selfishly gain some “blessings”? I’m not saying that you are doing this or thinking this, I’m just saying that this is the “game” that gets initiated in these “challenges” and why they may distort personal meaning and intentions, even, unwittingly.
Upon reflection, you may understand that it’s a catch-22 of sorts: by issuing the challenge, the bishop has left you little-to-no opportunity to engage in this activity from an internal intention. By it’s very issuing, the system is set up to “return and report”. An invisible emotional tentacle has reached out to you. Do you take hold?
Heber13 wrote:I don’t know if I should talk to my bishop and tell him I’m doing ok with my current views of church, of if I should ask him what worries him about me, or if I just keep on doing my thing and appreciate his concern without needing to really talk about things.
You’ll know when the time is right whether to talk to him or not; from my experience, it tends to coincide with the moment I truly stop caring what the other thinks about me.š³ Like everyone else said, I have no doubt that your bishop’s intentions are pure. Or, that he’s acting on inspiration. When I was released, I was given the challenge to embrace the JS story, so I could understand how the restored church and the BoM are true. Though I doubt that his and my perspectives are similar based on the outcome, that challenge did play a part in the immense blessings I’ve recognized since that time. Just not in the way that it was intended.
Old-Timer wrote:I really don’t like the culture of “challenging” that is rampant in the Church. I just don’t like the attitude it presents. For example, it’s NOT “Moroni’s challenge”. That word isn’t there. It’s “exhort” and “invite” – not “challenge”.
Wow, Ray! A revelation. I am into the word “invite” at the moment and decidedly anti-machismo in general, and this little post of yours really crystallized an important connection for me. Thanks!
Heber13 wrote:However, if there is some expectations that others have that I will get some huge revelation and return to my former self…I think they will be disappointed.
Expressing yourself in this way here was undoubtedly helpful. In addition, it may be helpful to express yourself exactly this way to your wife and bishop. I think pointing out the futility of “expectations” in a gentle way is very appropriate. At the same time, I find it is affirming and therapeutic to also say frankly that “I am going through a stage, and I have a lot of maturing to do still.” Of course we all are, but telling others that lets them know that you anticipate your relationship with the church will continue to mature as your own maturity and love increases. For me, that open acknowledgment of movement is an important part of working through Fowler Stage 4.
I too really liked Ray’s point! Heber13 – I think there is something noteworthy about this open-minded stance you’ve taken, to try something out just because someone who is interested in your well-being asked you to do so. I would let new experiences happen, but let go of trying to grasp what others think of you. If you are worried about your bishop’s motives in asking you to do this, let go of that. Just be open to the new experiences – those are tangible and important in your life. Not what other people think of you, for good or bad. What others think of you is mostly about them, not about you.
It sounds like your bishop cares about you and your family. He is probably trying to help you the best way he knows how .. by getting you to the temple ( the most important/correct ummm..thing you can experience). I’m sure you have already thought of the bishop’s definition of a win in the challenge and a loss .. compared to your own. Winning to your bishop might mean to have a “better” or maybe a “true” belief-maybe like that of a stage 3(?) maybe not, and lossing might mean you still being the same. A win or loss might be completely different to you or not even important. You might like the person you are now but we can all become better.
The temple might help you, if it changes you or inspires you for the better continue to go .. if it doesn’t, stop attending once a week.
Wow, thanks everyone for the support. What great feedback, I wish I could go line by line and respond to each of you, but I already make long enough posts. Iāll try to keep it short. I guess I will make different posts to respond to your thoughts, to keep it organized and shorter posts. Swimordie:
Thanks for your empathy. You seem to know from experience what Iām faced with. That brings me some comfort. Maybe Iām a goat in my ward, as Valoel referred to, so it is nice to know other goats are out there too.
swimordie wrote:You mentioned you have a broader interpretation of what it means for the church to be “true”. Have you thought of the implications of broadening that perspective in what it means practically with respect to “spiritual manifestations”?
Yes, I have considered this a lot lately and think it has been one are of growth for me. Although prayers donāt seem to be answered with clear direction on things in my life (even critical things like life or death situationsā¦literally) I have found many experiences of peace when playing cards with my 6 yr old, cuddling to watch a movie with my daughter, watching the sunrise, and watching my son play basketball. I have had these experiences in daily life situations, and that is what keeps me going, knowing these are the important things in life, even if I am seeking other things I think should be important that I should be able to get inspiration on, I have learned to cherish these spiritual manifestations of the love I have for my family. Perhaps with faith, I will be able to have some more spiritual experiences in the temple, whatever they may be. I hope so. But I donāt expect it just because it is the temple. I will go open minded and see what happens.
Tom Haws wrote:it is affirming and therapeutic to also say frankly that “I am going through a stage, and I have a lot of maturing to do still.” Of course we all are, but telling others that lets them know that you anticipate your relationship with the church will continue to mature as your own maturity and love increases.
Thanks Tom. I think that is good advice, and something that will help me work through stage 4 as well. I like the way you phrased that. I have tried to express this, but my family has seemed to focus on my Internet studies and postings with the implication that I have fallen prey to anti-mormon influences, so this āphaseā Iām in scares them. They have talked to my bishop about this concern, which is why it saddens me they donāt understand what Iām really studying and feeling. I guess this is all the more reason to follow your advice and try to continue to express this and clarify things with them, but at some point, I must grow in maturity to follow Hawkgrrrls advice to let go of being preoccupied with what others think of me. Hopefully I can show them with kindness and love that I do truly believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and desire to live the teachings as best as I can understand them. But I can’t pretend to be somebody I’m not…and this “phase” I’m going through I think will be for my benefit, even if I have to go at it alone (with, of course, the support of my StayLDS friends
hawkgrrrl wrote:I too really liked Ray’s point!
Heber13 – I think there is something noteworthy about this open-minded stance you’ve taken, to try something out just because someone who is interested in your well-being asked you to do so.
I would let new experiences happen, but let go of trying to grasp what others think of you. If you are worried about your bishop’s motives in asking you to do this, let go of that. Just be open to the new experiences – those are tangible and important in your life. Not what other people think of you, for good or bad. What others think of you is mostly about them, not about you.
Hawkgrrrl:Thanks for your words. I will print out your post and put it in my planner to remind me daily to ālet go of trying to grasp what others think of me and just be open to new experiencesā ā¦ my new mantra.
LaLaLove wrote:It sounds like your bishop cares about you and your family. …
The temple might help you, if it changes you or inspires you for the better continue to go .. if it doesn’t, stop attending once a week.
LalaLove:Also good advice. I do think the bishop cares for me sincerely, and I love him for that.
Yes, this is what I plan to do, and I will sincerely go with hopes that it will benefit me and my relationship with my wife. I will not stress about it or force it to be a good experience or all is lost and I give up…I will just go and let it happen…if it doesn’t happen, I will go to a place where I can feel it happen, because this is about me, my family, and my relationship with heavenly father…and the bishop’s challenge is appreciated, but may or may not be the thing for me. I shall take responsibility to find that out.
I will be going to the temple this Friday. I will share with the group the outcome and if it is something that helps me or not. My assumption is that I can find more peace and happiness at home with my kids than going to church or the temple away from themā¦but perhaps there is another lesson of some kind I am supposed to learn about the temple and spiritual manifestationsā¦as Swimordie suggested. I shall see.
God bless you all. Thanks for taking time out of your life to share your thoughts with me.
Hmmm. Maybe I will get down to the temple one of these days. I wonder if I have my robes stashed away somewhere. It has been about a year. Wow, you are soooo brave. I mean that. Good luck, I hope good things happen for you there!
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