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Tom Haws wrote:
Hmmm. Maybe I will get down to the temple one of these days. I wonder if I have my robes stashed away somewhere. It has been about a year.
I’m worried if my white pants will even fit anymore.😯 I guess I will be humbled one way or another by going, huh?
Quote:I’m worried if my white pants will even fit anymore. I guess I will be humbled one way or another by going, huh?
There’s nothing so humbling as the Elvis-style polyester doubleknit rental jumpsuit!
Heber13 wrote:But I can’t pretend to be somebody I’m not…and this “phase” I’m going through I think will be for my benefit, even if I have to go at it alone (with, of course, the support of my StayLDS friends
What a great thread…real issues, and amazing responses!
I’m going to focus on what you said here, as it is exactly what I have been thinking as I read the responses. I’m going to be the “devil’s advocate” and offer a different approach — fwiw, and I know this may only be the way I deal with this stuff. First, I’m sure the bishop is doing the best he can with what he’s been given (my mantra), so I have no problem with him simply following the play script. It’s what most in the church do. However, your statement “But I can’t pretend to be somebody I’m not” is HUGE, in my mind…and I agree more than you may! During my spiritual depression, that is what I did — what others expected me to do, and it sucked! Literally. It sucked the soul right out of me. I was, and am, one who must live authentically…not for anybody else, but for my own emotional health. I can’t live constantly looking over my shoulder wondering who will see or hear me say/do something they don’t expect.
So I think I see myself in this situation doing something like this: “Thank you Bishop for your concern for me; I think I understand where you are coming from. I am going through a spiritual phase right now that may not include regular attendance to the temple…but I assure you it is all very positive and helpful for me.”
And to DW: “I know my approach to the church is not what your approach is, but I love you dearly, and that love includes me living an authentic, honest life…and it feels a little dishonest for me to attend the temple with where I am right now. Please understand that this phase is not a bad, losing my testimony phase, but a different way of communing with Heavenly Father. I hope you can give me the support that is helpful…as I will completely support you in your journey too.”
Yes, more questions from them will follow, but the healthiest approach (again, maybe my opinion only) is to not get sucked in to living THEIR expectations of you…if it’s not yours. Phrases like, “I appreciate your concern, but it’s not where I am in my journey right now…” can help.
Good luck!
Rix wrote:Heber13 wrote:Yes, more questions from them will follow, but the healthiest approach (again, maybe my opinion only) is to not get sucked in to living THEIR expectations of you…if it’s not yours. Phrases like, “I appreciate your concern, but it’s not where I am in my journey right now…” can help.
What digs even deeper into the “expectation” game is the temple itself. Members will constantly speak/tell other members that the temple – in fact – is the most spiritual place to be on Earth, I’ve heard it is the real world compared to everything else in “our” world. I believe that there are definately members out there that believe the temple is perfect and literal and absolutely nesscessary for exaltation and they often push a spirit of “same” into our minds. Same being, we will love it, we will feel the closest to God, we will know it is “true” work, If we would only go and see it for ourselves! Often and honestly the only things I hear about the temple are positive and all knowing testimonies. I’ve never hear about the members that get creepy feelings, get silly feelings or get feelings of wasting time.I don’t know where I’m going with this but in the end it doesn’t matter what other people think or experience at the temple but it definately makes it very difficult to let go of expectations of the temple when you constantly hear identical experiences and promises of positive, spritual feelings and truth.
Kudos to anyone that can let go of expectations of the temple, if I ever go again I will try my best to do the same.
I just wanna say I really like this thread. LaLaLove and Rix, you guys are great with your last answers. I agree with what Ray said… I hate thinking about what other people think of me because I am afraid it’s not good.
I was responding to the other thread on the temple recommend that Inbeing started, and it made me think more of my recent experience. I didn’t know if I really wanted to share it or not, but I guess after some thought, I would like to share it and maybe learn from others how to best think of things going forward.
In short…(as stated in the original post) the bishop challenged us to go to the temple often, and so my wife and I went and it was an absolutely horrible experience. One of the worst I’ve had in months.
And so my first reaction is to think that this is why leaders challenging us to do things can be risky…because now that it was such a bad experience for me, what am I to think of it all?
*Why even try to go to church or do things like this ever when they are so painful to me?
*Was the leader not inspired, in which case I trust him less from now on with anything he has to say? or distrust revelation all together?
*Does God not find me worthy?
*Is the Devil trying to thwart God’s plan for Heber and create “trials of faith” for me to overcome?
*If following church leaders and going to the temple is an awful experience, is that a witness that the church is not true?
I think it is interesting my mind immediately goes to such thoughts…which are based on my lifetime of teachings and understandings that I’ve embraced over my life.
But the more I think about it, despite it being difficult and painful…I do not believe I need to put such mystical explanations on this one event I experienced.
I do not believe God is watching me and trying to tell me something, like what this means to trust the leader or interpret the truth of the mormon religion. I do not believe the Devil is wringing his hands trying to thwart God’s work by creating random things to happen to Heber.
Instead, I choose to believe it was simply an “off” night, and I’m willing to try it again if my wife and I feel we should. Nah…instead of placing every single daily event in my life on the scales of the eternal war of good and evil in the universe, I think it can simply be another experience in life which is a time to prepare and to learn things…so what can I learn from this? I can learn to be patient. I can learn to let go of blaming the bishop or my worthiness or the temple presidency or the weather or the price of tea in china… There doesn’t need to be blame, it simply was what it was…and I will learn from it or forget about it, and continue to seek peace and happiness in my life.
If I continue to have such experiences every time I go to the temple, I will eventually stop going, but not for a lack of trying to seek God’s love…just accepting the reality that I’m not finding it at the temple. I appreciate the bishop’s challenge to seek positive spiritual experiences for me (as he assumes I’d receive them), but I have to live with the consequences and outcomes of things in my life, so I will choose which ones to seek after that make me feel happy, and avoid the painful ones.
I suspect there will be future times when it will be better experiences, but that remains to be seen.
If anyone else has any advice for me, or similar experiences I can learn from, please feel free to share your thoughts.
Anyway, I just thought I’d share the outcome of things so far for me.
🙄 Thanks for taking the time to write that out and share your experience and your thoughts. We learn so much from each other Heber. My immediate thoughts were like this as I read what you shared: See, you felt something, to try and be open to an experience. I am SURE it was not what the Bishop expected would happen (not that he knows). It is not what you expected. But I see you sitting back and just taking it as it is and seeing what happens. I looks like you actually learned a LOT! even if not what one would normally expect. Life is such a fascinating trip
I am a little skeptical when church leaders issue a personal challenge linked to behavior based on Mormon doctrine. Its one thing to challenge you to lose weight or donate your time to helping the poor, but its another to challenge you on something as abstract as the temple. Just what blessings are you suppose to get. It is always very vague what the actual benefits are. Although the Bishop is most likely sincere I tend to believe it is more a control issue. Do what you are told and you will be happy. For me it does not work that way. Cadence wrote:Do what you are told and you will be happy. For me it does not work that way.
I know what you mean!He was sincere, so I give him that. I think he heard an inspiring story someone shared in a stake meeting about how the temple made them feel so close to God, and he thought of me…thinking that if I also went to the temple then I would feel closer to God. Often that substitution method is taken as a sure fire method.
Person A did X and felt Y, therefore Person B, C, and D should also do X.
I wish life was that simple. It just ain’t.
Oh Heber! (((hugs))) I am so sorry you had a horrible experience. It made me think of how I felt my second time through an endowment session. It wasn’t a good feeling. Going to the temple gave me anxiety for awhile after that. I don’t know why it was horrible for you, but I hope you are feeling better about it now.
Geez. I don’t know what else to say.
Quote:Person A did X and felt Y, therefore Person B, C, and D should also do X.
Yeah, like:
Quote:Oliver Cowdery was told he would have a burning in his bosom or a stupor of thought – so you can, also. Pray, and you will get that burning – but only if you are sincere.
Hogwash. Many do; many don’t.
We get into SO many sticky situations when we extrapolate personal experiences onto others – and, drum roll . . . . . .
That’s just as true of everyone here and others who are sturggling when dealing with the non-strugglers as it is of Heber’s bishop when dealing with Heber.Accepting that is absolutely critical to finding peace. Wow, Heber! You never cease to amaze me! Your stream of conscious thought examining your experience, where it came from, what it may mean, what it may not mean, etc. is so, so, so, inspiring!! While I was reading it, I felt like I was feeling your feelings. Very profound. Thank you so, so much for sharing. Life really does have quite a way of teaching us… This has been an interesting thread to read. I also applaud Heber for his willingness to share this stuff as well as his attitude. Some thoughts that came to mind as I read. Bishops, or any church leaders, will usually (not always) follow the script. Problem? Read scriptures, pray, go to the temple. Recent convert? Get them to the temple as soon as possible. I’m not meaning to take away the value of those activities, but timing is certainly a factor and problems are NOT always remedied by those stock, sunday school answers (unless the only evidence you consider are occasional testimonies or what someone spouts in sunday school). I realize I’m preaching to the choir with that thought.
Another thought that came to me was what did Heber DO at the temple? Did he just go do an endownment session? There are many things one can do at the temple and the different activities often have different feelings and experiences attached (at least to me). Several years ago, I admitted to myself, then eventually to others, that I really didn’t like going to the temple most of the time. For me, going to the temple did not increase my testimony. Rather, it generally decreased it. BUT, I did have some nice experiences at the temple and felt spiritually uplifted at times. When where those times? When I was there because I wanted to go for a particular reason… maybe to get baptized for an ancestor that I’d researched and found, maybe to take a child to do some work. I’ve heard people say that they receive answers and spiritual guidance while at the temple. That really hasn’t happened to me, even though I’ve tried. But, I have felt good being there sometimes. Not always, though.
So, maybe a suggestion to Heber is that if he decides to go again to the temple, try a different ordinance activity, or even better, try finding a family name and going through with that name.
A few years ago I let my recommend lapse because I wasn’t really interested in going regularly. Well, the Bishop called me in, probably thinking I needed to repent. I went ahead and got it renewed that night then told myself I probably needed to keep it active if I wanted to avoid discussions of why a member in otherwise good standing wouldn’t care too much if his recommend wasn’t current. Besides, I do want to go sometimes, so it’s nice to have, I guess.
Heber13, thank you for your stream-of-thought sharing. Very honest. And very touching and insightful.
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