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This will be kind of a ramble as I try to figure things out, but I need to spit it out somewhere. My general sentiment is to stay with the LDS church, but I am not sure why. The culture drives me nuts on social levels, but I feel it is an integral part of who I am as far as family heritage is concerned.
What started off as a differing of beliefs based on prayer, gender equality, lgbt issues and a non literal belief of the scriptures has now has broken down into a general disbelief where I am unsure of even the basics like God and Jesus Christ.
Every week at church I think about how I don’t want to be there anymore, yet part of me isn’t ready to drop it. My wife is fully supportive of me, but I don’t want to leave her with the burden of taking 3 young kids to church alone.
I listened to (and didn’t fall asleep in) 3 sessions of conference this weekend, which is really unusual for me. 6 hours of church instead of 3? What’s wrong with me?
I enjoyed Holland’s talk today, mainly because I felt he was sincerely reaching out. I liked the concept of focusing on what little faith you do have. As I thought about it, I realized that there really isn’t much I have faith in anymore. I would like to have faith in Christ, but I am not sure if I really believe it. It seems so abstract. I try praying and feel like I am teaching out to something unknowable. It is hard to build up a desire to read and pray when I feel this way about prayer and scriptures.
How does belief work? Is it something I should just be able to turn on? anyone have any experience with this? I feel like I am trying to hang on to something for reasons don’t know, and I can’t even find the strands to hang on to.
I don’t have any advice or an answer to offer but I could have written every word of your post. Its as though you were writing my thoughts.
I was going to say hang in there as that is what I keep telling myself. ‘Hang on for one more day, one more Sunday’ but why? That’s a good question!
Right now, I think it is because it improves my quality of life. It helps me strive to be better, and makes me happier than I would be otherwise. I am not all that I could be but the church helps me, and allows me to help other people.. I meet so many decent good people in the church, and not enough out of it. Of course, I can point to plenty of exceptions in and out of it… but still who doesn’t want to mix with nice people?
I believe the Book of Mormon is inspired and can be inspiring. I also value the temple although the endowment is hard going.
The Word of Wisdom has also helped me.
What I don’t like especially: regimentation, sexism, historic racism, and assumptions about my political stance. Banging on about gays doesn’t do much for me either.
What I don’t need the church for: prayer, the Bible and a general relationship with God.
Segmenting the baby from the bathwater is a great starting point for anyone. When you figure it out, please share it with us so we might know what to do. When my faith tumbled, the only thing left standing was a general belief in God and even that is only bits and crumbs, now not knowing what exactly God is. I guess I hung onto the concept of a God, because while I do believe in evolution (science is close on this one, just still sorting out the details…religion doesn’t even want to try to begin down that road which will be their long term death), I heard a quote once….not sure from who, but I remember the words: evolution tells me how I got here but doesn’t explain why I am here…..or something to that effect. So I hang onto God and I doubt that grip will slip. As for Jesus Christ, I sure like that story. Perhaps there was a man named Jesus Christ and he was a wonderful teacher and out lined a great guide on how to be a good human being…..but I do know, no living creature, including man ever came to life without some forum of sexual act….be it cell division, asexual reproduction, or male/female reproduction….period and while I believe in an after life (why not!….give a person some hope and comfort in watching loved ones not to mention ourselves face mortality), I personally doubt the resurrection. I really don’t believe in a devil and if there is a heaven and hell, I have painted it my mind as it more metaphoric than literal. Sure….why not, the scriptures are metaphoric for the most part….Adan/Eve, The flood, tower of babel, etc.
My testimony did not crumble from within the LDS Church and their misinformation, stupid social structure where it would seem most of it (outside some truly great people) is comprised of social manipulators and their victims. It fell do to my dis belief in the bible and the BoM if a story that is connected to the bible…..I lost the bible in my mind and the BoM fell too.
OK, nuff said.
I think this a great sight for those not ready to leave…like me who believes very little of it, yet hangs on…..but inactive. You could not drug me and drag me into a Mormon Church to attend meetings and I have not had a temple recommend in over 20 years. I guess I love my mom and dad and two sisters and I could not break their hearts by telling them I left the Mormon Church. So I left it metaphorically, in my mind. To my family, I am just inactive….. in my mind, I am not a Mormon.
DCGSage wrote:evolution tells me how I got here but doesn’t explain why I am here…..or something to that effect. So I hang onto God and I doubt that grip will slip.
As for Jesus Christ, I sure like that story. Perhaps there was a man named Jesus Christ and he was a wonderful teacher and out lined a great guide on how to be a good human being…..but I do know, no living creature, including man ever came to life without some forum of sexual act….be it cell division, asexual reproduction, or male/female reproduction….period and while I believe in an after life (why not!….give a person some hope and comfort in watching loved ones not to mention ourselves face mortality), I personally doubt the resurrection. I really don’t believe in a devil and if there is a heaven and hell, I have painted it my mind as it more metaphoric than literal. Sure….why not, the scriptures are metaphoric for the most part….Adan/Eve, The flood, tower of babel, etc.
DCGSage, I like much of what you have written and would like to use it as a spring board for my own comments.
In the depth of my sorrow I felt a powerful impression of love and acceptance. This becomes my anchor. I like the thought of my Heavenly Father personally condescending to save me from myself and the world – so I choose to believe that was how it happened but I am not committed to that belief (death on a cross as essential). However it works out, I am firm that I am loved and accepted by my Father and my God. I frame my belief in LDS lingo for commenting in SS but I suppose most of that is academic and extrapolation.
I am a Mormon by heritage. Born of goodly parents that made many sacrifices. I love them and honor them. I am unsure about the power of the priesthood but I am sure about the power of human connection and relationships. I feel that by serving in the priesthood (both in performing ordinances and free labor), I am building those connections.
I also feel that I have arrived at a point where I am fairly impervious to guilting and shaming. Remember – I know that God loves and accepts me, so what power should the opinion of my fellow flawed and limited parishioners have to beset me? This does not mean that I am glutton for punishment and that I would continue to attend if I were belittled and disrespected. Not all wards are created equal but my current ward seems to be one of sincere and predominantly good people. They accept that I am different (and some may wish that I would toe the line)- but they still treat me with respect.
If I were to leave I don’t think that I would be lacking anything on the inside – but I would need to find different tools and framework to engage with other people. I know the Church and Mormonism. I was BIC, served a mission, married in the temple, and wear my garments. All of these things are social markers that give me a certain amount of recognition of belonging in the church (rightly or wrongly). It is my church.
Lastly – because it is my church (in the sense that I am fluent and comfortable) but that I feel minimal need to conform – I find myself uniquely qualified to be a moderate influence.
I can befriend the flamboyant shirt wearing hippie and give him a friendly non-judgmental connection. I can give a moderating comment in SS when the conversation gets too rabidly conservative. This can be especially important when the conversation is hurtful and there may be some present that are suffering in silence – but feel unable to speak up.
These things may or may not apply to you. Whether you eventually stay or go – I will not look on you any differently and I am confident that God will do so much better than me.
Roy – That is beautifully written, and though I am a woman, I find your description embodies me or the me I am striving to become. For myself I’ve tried to let go – when I do I feel that I am dishonoring that love you described. I don’t know why I am LDS. It was the faith tradition I was born into. I have learned it is not all good and not all bad. In between there are so many possibilities that it would be hard to make a clean cut answer. What I do hold dear are those remarkable, in explainable moments, that have connected me to something higher, deeper, sweeter, holier. In honor of them and their potential in this life I stay rooted in the religion of my birth. For all I know if I had been born Quaker, Amish, Jewish, etc, and had the same experiences I would likely remain fixed there.
Thanks again.
I stay for some of the same reasons as others have mentioned, but, ultimately, I stay because I want to stay and believe strongly in the ideal enough to wade through the muck of the real. +1 for Roy’s comment. Quote:I enjoyed Holland’s talk today, mainly because I felt he was sincerely reaching out. I liked the concept of focusing on what little faith you do have. As I thought about it, I realized that there really isn’t much I have faith in anymore. I would like to have faith in Christ, but I am not sure if I really believe it. It seems so abstract….How does belief work? Is it something I should just be able to turn on? anyone have any experience with this? I feel like I am trying to hang on to something for reasons don’t know, and I can’t even find the strands to hang on to.
I also enjoyed Holland’s talk. Overall I came away from conference feeling motivated to make some changes in myself in order to be a better person/father/husband. For me this is the great value of the church. Even though my faith (and even practices) varies from that of the typical Mormon, I still get something spiritually out of attending. I can imagine how hard it would be to keep going if this weren’t the case.I believe there is a lot of truth in what E. Holland (and the scriptures) said about even “desiring to believe.” Add to this desire time, an optimistic attitude, some positive voices (thanks Ray
:wave: ) and things start to look up. I’m not for one second saying that your knowledge grows or that God will suddenly come down and tell you all is well….but time helps you become comfortable with uncertainty. Eventually it’s so familiar that it no longer acts as a stumbling block. When this happens one feel free…free to act, free to believe or disbelieve. So can you turn on belief? Sure…why not. Just avoid that which encourages your mind to disbelieve and focus on that “which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him…” I accept that fact that doubt is there to stay with me. I can doubt the truth of many things, and yet hope that they are true…because I want them to be true. Faith is a choice…as is belief.Thanks for all of you responses so far, I guess where I need to start is with the desire to believe. I want to stay, but after conference I felt totally discouraged. I just can’t put a finger on why I should stay. I believe there is a lot of value in the earlier comment about separating the baby from the bathwater, but I am still looking for the baby. My wife has told me she doesn’t care if I stay in or not. My social scene is entirely outside of the church so that isn’t the baby we are looking for. I guess I need to try and connect with something on a spiritual level. I know that is the most important part anyway, but if that fails, then there really isn’t anything left. This past year has really been a roller coaster.
Roy wrote:I also feel that I have arrived at a point where I am fairly impervious to guilting and shaming. Remember – I know that God loves and accepts me…
The church has made me feel guilty and inadequate for years. When I was a TBM, every talk on FHE or daily family scripture study was a continual reminder of my short comings. It was detrimental to my being. Church usually gave me a boost and motivation “to do better”. Having my sons walk away from the church caused pain and anguish and more guilt.
Questioning my faith is the best thing I have ever done. I am learning to accept myself with all my flaws. I am learning that children going on missions and getting married in the temple should not define their worth and goodness in any way. I should not define my worth and goodness by having children follow that typical LDS pattern. My faith crisis has made me see more clearly. I can see that it is wrong for the church to heap on that much guilt (and it certainly does, even if that is not the intention), but I allowed that guilt to be heaped on me. And I kept an extra shovel around just in case I felt I needed extra.
🙂 As a TBM, I didn’t feel like I could see my sons as wonderful and successful unless they were Mormons too, so I piled guilt on them as we’ll. I am so sorry for that.I have had to start all over. I do believe in God and Christ. I dont know why I do, but it feels right and it is a choice I am making. Everything from the restoration on is a big question. President Hollands talk helped me to feel that if my current faith is my starting and ending point, then that is okay. Everyone on this board has their own faith foundations, and all are okay. His talk helped me to feel God’s love and acceptance once again, which I would not have felt if I had not watched conference. So as much as I have had aspects of the church be harmful to me, it is now helping me to heal and is still a positive place for my personal growth and development.
That’s where I am right now. Who knows about next month!
:Aren’t roller coasters suppose to be fun? 
church0333 wrote:… I went in thinking that I will be a cafeteria Mormon this weekend ….
Hmmmm? There were a couple of talks that called you out for being such. Good thing you are listening and choosing which speakers to listen to and believe.
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It’s late Saturday night/early Sunday morning. I spent the evening trying to prepare my lesson for the deacons tomorrow. This month’s topic is all about the apostasy/restoration. I looked over the lessons available & didn’t feel I could teach any of them honestly. I tried looking at them creatively, but none of it sits well with me. I really feel like it is time to step down as the 2nd C in the YM. Anyone have any advice stepping down without bringing undue attention to yourself or your family?
I had the same problem as primary president the restoration for the next 6 weeks. I almost told my bishop to release me as I couldn’t see a way through the next few weeks. I decided to delegate every lesson I couldn’t teach.
Today my councillor gave the lesson on the first vision while I sorted things in nursery and other classes. Next week the missionaries are coming in to talk about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the following week the bishopric are teaching about the restoration of the priesthood. Sorted for now, until next time!
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