What do we have to believe?

[Anonymous]

I think we have talked about similar subjects before, but I’m not sure we’ve been specific about what we think one must believe in order to be considered fully “Mormon.” This thought was inspired by my bishop’s “testimony” (it was more of a mini sermon) in yesterday’s F&TM. Paraphrasing, he essentially said that we have to buy into all of it to be members of the church. I, of course, disagree. And I think statements like Uchtdorf’s “your testimony doesn’t have to be this tall to enter” and similar ones by others of the Q15 back the idea that we don’t have to believe it all. Giving my bishop the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think he actually meant what he said to come out the way it did – he does tend to pontificate – but I do think he believes we must all have some testimony of the “big things” of the church. So, my question is, what are these things that we must believe (or know, I suppose) in order to be considered Mormon? (Caveat: I am not actually looking for what causes others to think we’re Mormon, or a TBM version of what we must believe, I want to know what you as an individuals believe we need to believe, what makes you believe you are Mormon?)

So, I’ll take a stab at answering my own question.

1. I think we have to have basic Christian beliefs in God and a Savior (which alone, of course, doesn’t make us Mormon)

2. I think we have to have some belief in the LDS definition of the Godhead – that they are three separate beings

3. I think we have to have some basic belief that prophets have existed in latter times, not just Biblical times, but I don’t think we have to view them as infallible

4. I think we have to have some basic belief that the Book of Mormon is at least inspired (I’m not convinced we do need to believe this, though, as it’s not even directly asked about in the TR interview).

Thoughts? What else do you think we need to believe?

[Anonymous]

Wow this could have a lot of answers depending upon where he/she is on the scale of Mormon beliefs . I like the question so I will take a stab in the dark.

1. Basic Christian Beliefs (essential) Jesus was crucified for our sins died and was resurected on the third day and ascended to heaven and will return.

2. A belief in the prexistence (we were all once spirits waiting for the chance to come to earth)

3. Beleif in the Apostasy of the original church Jesus set up on earth.

4. Belief in the restoration , not so much in Joseph Smith although he was a part of it but that the church has been restored to earth and that Jesus leads and directs the church through prophets .

5. I personaly do not believe the Temple should be included as we are all going to be together somewhere in the kingdoms after death , I do not need the temple for help in this area. (God is a God of the Living not the dead) .

6. I also do not believe this is the only true church I believe thier are many and it is more of an individual worship than the beliefs of one church.

That’s about it for me I hope that is what you were looking for , I could go on but that is the short answer for now.

[Anonymous]

My definition is much more basic. I think you need to believe in the value of keeping your name on the records of the church, and identify enough with the religion at some level (whether cultural, or doctrinal, or from a family tradition perspective) to describe yourself as Mormon when people ask. This means you can be atheist and yet still consider yourself Mormon. So, at a minimal level, its an identification with the church that makes you Mormon, and not your belief in any particular doctrine or principle.

[Anonymous]

Jgaskill, these are exactly the kinds of things I am looking for. Indeed, I wasn’t quite sure how to include the ideas of the great apostasy and the one true church, in part because I don’t personally believe in them although I once did. The pre-earth life is one that just didn’t cross my mind, but it is indeed part of LDS theology, and I did not consider the temple because one can be a basic member without having been to the temple – but again it is part of the theology. So the question is, does one have to believe in the great apostasy, pre-earth life, that and temple work to be a considered a member? If I don’t believe those those things am I not Mormon? The one true church idea is much trickier – I’d like some more input on that one.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

My definition is much more basic. I think you need to believe in the value of keeping your name on the records of the church, and identify enough with the religion at some level (whether cultural, or doctrinal, or from a family tradition perspective) to describe yourself as Mormon when people ask. This means you can be atheist and yet still consider yourself Mormon. So, at a minimal level, its an identification with the church that makes you Mormon, and not your belief in any particular doctrine or principle.

When I was turning the idea for this post over in my mind I meant to include something about the concept that people could possibly be atheist or agnostic and be members. Two years ago I wouldn’t have thought such a thing, but interacting here has enlightened me on the subject.

I am actually looking for something more on a spiritual/theological level as opposed to a cultural level. I think being an active member in this case would include being considered for a calling where one might be required to teach doctrine (gospel doctrine teacher for instance) or lead others (elders quorum counselor as an example). I don’t want to put too many limits on, but I’m looking more at the every week members who hold callings or are generally considered worthy to do so.

[Anonymous]

Then I would put this on my list

1. Belief in God

2. Belief in Jesus Christ

3. Belief in the apostasy, restoration, JS as a prophet, the current prophet as inspired, the priesthood.

4. Belief in the BoM as having some kind of divine source.

I think it’s better to be minimalist about what you need to believe to teach or to hold leadership callings, although some will require a TR. You can always avoid speaking on certain subjects in those positions. I will say, I was teaching Gospel Essentials in the throes of faith crisis and managed to get through it all without much trouble. I think my faith has morphed to the point I couldn’t do it now. But at the time, I was having trouble with inspired leadership, with temples, tithing, and Sabbath Day and still managed to fill the room to the point the Bishop had to tell everyone who wasn’t in Gospel Essentials as a Ward missionary or friendshipper to get their hides back to Gospel Doctrine.

[Anonymous]

I think there are 2 bars. One bar is to get a temple recommend. I think for that you just look at the recommend questions and it gives you a good list.

The other bar is to stay a member (or in other words, what would get you ex’ed). On the latter I think once you start vocally/publicly stating that you want the church to change or state they are wrong, you are at a point where it is in question and getting ex’ed is a matter of both how vocal you are, how heard you are (your impact) and your local leadership. If you stay away from that (and breaking a big commandment – felony or sexual sins) you can stay in.

[Anonymous]

I lean heavily toward an expression of “be open to the possibility…” as what is required — much more than a definite “I believe.”

I am open to the possibility of three distinct members of the Godhead, but as far as personal revelation that I have received on the topic – I can’t say that I know with any certainty the true nature of God.

[Anonymous]

I remember my missionary days and interviewing converts. It seemed like there was a list of questions to pass in order to be baptized. I would say that list is what is required to be mormon, which leaves a lot of other stuff that we learn as we go, and another list if we want the temple. The temple list is what we should believe if we want to be a totally committed mormon. But you can be a mormon without a temple recommend. I don’t know that you can be a mormon if you are not willing to be baptized.

This list would be:

Quote:

1. Do you believe that God is our Eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world?

2. Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?

3. What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?

4. Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?

5. You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?

a. The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.

b. The law of tithing.

c. The Word of Wisdom.

d. The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.

6. When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?

PREACH MY GOSPEL

There are a lot of other things in the church to grow to understand. But these would be the basics to be Mormon, I think.

I find it interesting the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price and D&C are not required to believe in, according to this list.

[Anonymous]

The list to become a member is longer than the list to remain a member. I think that is a shame.

To the question of remaining a possible candidate for a visible position of relative influence and authority, I think the central requirement is to not be a vigorous boat-rocker and not be even a gentle rock-thrower. You can believe most things to differing degrees, but you have to be seen as and actually be supportive of the Church as an institution – and you can’t be fighting others. You can be working to try to change things, but you can’t be fighting.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

the priesthood.

This seems to be central Mormonism. LDS leaders and teachers are authorized. Hopefully they do a good job but in the end what matters is the authority.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

So, I’ll take a stab at answering my own question.

1. I think we have to have basic Christian beliefs in God and a Savior (which alone, of course, doesn’t make us Mormon)

2. I think we have to have some belief in the LDS definition of the Godhead – that they are three separate beings

3. I think we have to have some basic belief that prophets have existed in latter times, not just Biblical times, but I don’t think we have to view them as infallible

4. I think we have to have some basic belief that the Book of Mormon is at least inspired (I’m not convinced we do need to believe this, though, as it’s not even directly asked about in the TR interview).

Thoughts? What else do you think we need to believe?

I think that if you’re talking regular attenders and calling-holders – particularly leadership – you probably also have to be seen as believing (even if you don’t) that temple ordinances are necessary and that the priesthood to do them resides only in this church.

(This wasn’t your question, but especially since the bottom fell out of my former testimony, I’m thankful we’re given so many opportunities to be that don’t hinge much on what we believe. The “showing up for life” idea- be there to play the piano, set up chairs, give a blessing, bring a meal, teach a class….)

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the nature of the Godhead is important. I know Mormonism is different than traditional Christianity, but its the relationship with the being that matters, and for me, it doesn’t matter if he’s a vaporous blob, or a physical man like myself. What matters is my relationship with him. I don’t think the physical nature of God is even part of the TR interview — just whether you believe in Him or not.

Now, it’s tough to get around authority and priesthood though. And the post I made today about the relationship between your attitude toward authority and probability of authority shores up that argument.

[Anonymous]

To be a leader at a visible level, I think you have to believe enough to be able to participate actively and not challenge or fight the Church openly.

I have had Bishops and Stake Presidents who had radically different views about a lot of things. Sure, more were on the orthodox side of the middle than the heterodox side on most things, but I have had enough fairly deep discussions with enough of them to understand that they are nowhere near robotic or identical in their views. They could be called company men based on their acceptance of those callings and the fact that they didn’t make public waves, but many of them weren’t yes men in the classic sense.

[Anonymous]

I believe in keeping my beliefs basis. I like SD’s list:

Quote:

1. Belief in God

2. Belief in Jesus Christ

3. Belief in the apostasy, restoration, JS as a prophet, the current prophet as inspired, the priesthood.

4. Belief in the BoM as having some kind of divine source.

Any additions would include:

5. Belief that on some level, our families are forever.

6. Belief that my spiritual journey is meant to be an adventure not work.

7. Belief that there are going to be many surprises along the way. On this side or the other.

[Author]

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