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People talk of an all powerful God who created the heavens and the earth. A god who speaks to men, and loves all his children equally. A god who has a plan and that plan is for us to return to him. I think this is a grand vision of God that bears little resemblance to what we experience day to day. When I look around there is such a huge discrepancy in the lives of every individual it is hard to say we are all equal. Some live a life of joy and others experience the depths of agony every day of their existence. Does God talk to man? Many have claimed that to be the case, but what do we really have to show for it? Some minimal amount of “scripture” that is perhaps 85 percent incoherent ramblings. Very little that is straight up instructions on how to make things work. Granted I would say there are some great concepts in the New Testament on how to live you life, but they are not ground breaking. Maybe for their day they were but not much has been added since. Add on top of that all the crap in the scriptures and what really is the point of them? As much can be gleaned from science and economics on how to live than from any scripture. Except maybe scripture has the supposed stamp of God on them so people will tend to comply more. So to my original OP. What is it you expect form God? For me I have given up on Mormonism and religion for the most part. I am a Deist. If God is there he is not intervening. I think this best explains the state of the world. If I believed in an interventionist caring God as many do I would require much more from him than what we have. I would like much more open and undeniable communication with him. No subtle whispers, or cryptic writings handed down over thousands of years about shepards and death and destruction that are less and less relevant for our day. Just show up and lay out the best course of action. Just tell us in an unambiguous way what he/she thinks works best for us. We still can choose not to follow but at least give us a good starting point so we do not wander to and fro, creating religions that drive us apart.
I would expect his interventionist God to actually do what people claim he does. Sick people would actually be healed on a more than random and very very seldom basis. Cripples would walk and birth defects would be washed away by the power of God. Not just stories and anecdotes, but real live instances of such.
I could go on with my expectations of this interventionist God but suffice it to say the God we have created is not the God we have. It is the problem I have being a rational logical thinking being. I can not wrap my head around nuance, myth, symbolism, and all the devices individuals use to explain every aspect of Mormonism and religion in general. If this interventionist God exists why does he seem speak to clairvoyants and somtimes unstable people. Why does he not speak to scientists? Where is the God who speaks to the Spock that is me?
At one time I believed in the God you described in your opening – the all loving God, who especially loved Mormons, who would help you find your lost car keys so you could go to your church meeting. I always had questions about that God, like why he didn’t he save his other chosen people (the Jews) during the Holocaust. Nevertheless, I was able to overlook those things and still believe that God loved us so much individually that he was aware of each of our little trials and was only waiting on our willingness and humility to ask for help to flick his finger and make things all better. My crisis of faith led me to the stark realization that that God does not exist and is mostly the product of Mormon mythology. I longed for the God I thought existed, the one so described by LDS dogma. In my crisis I swung to an almost atheist viewpoint, to more agnostic to where I now am (and have been for several years), which is your view, Cadence, of a deist view of God. I do believe God is the creator, but I pretty much believe God created things, set it in motion, and let it go. I don’t believe he is totally unaware of our existence, but I don’t believe he intervenes or that he is generally aware of, nor does he care about, our little daily trials – or even the big ones. I do believe God loves us, but only in a very general sense as our creator and not personally or individually. The jury was out for a long time then on the need for a Savior. I have concluded that the Savior is a part of the plan because God did know we would sin and there needed to be a redemption – the intricacies of that are still very unclear to me, however. I also believe there is room in the church for those of us who believe this.
All that said, I can’t answer your questions because their my questions, too. I am, however, comfortable where I’m at with my view of God and can chalk up most of the rest to mythology. Answering your title question, I don’t expect anything of God because I’ve learned not to.
Quote:So to my original OP. What is it you expect form God?
I don’t expect anything other than to be aware of and love me and accept my best efforts. I take and try to appreciate whatever I think is given.
This is one area where I am completely fine saying I don’t know, but I’ve experienced enough in my life to believe God does exist and that he is aware of us. I don’t have a clue why things happen how they happen, especially with apparent blessings for some and not for others, but I do believe, deeply, in the existence of God.
Fwiw, this posted on my personal blog last Wednesday:
“
How Much Control Do I Have Over My Actions? I Don’t Know, but I Have Faith in God” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-control-do-i-really-have-over.html What do I expect from God? I expect Him to accept my doubt filled life, but a life during which I tried to better myself and help those around me. If He exists I hope He’ll say “you did your best which is good enough for me, come hang out with me for a while.” I don’t know what I would call myself right now, but what I expect from God is to make things OK in the end, if there is something after this life. If not, then I try to do the best I can do here and treat people the best I can. If I fail in some of the commandments (as far as what the church tells me are the commandments), it really is no big deal to me because I base my goodness by how I deal with others a whole lot more than if I watch an R rated movie or such silly nonsense. I don’t smoke because I think it does harm to others besides the fact it is stinky to me. I wouldn’t have an affair because it would hurt others not because I think God is going to withhold blessings from me. I think actions in this life effect things in this life and not necessarily the next life. Does that make sense? Quote:I think actions in this life effect things in this life and not necessarily the next life. Does that make sense?
Yes, but I would say:
Quote:“Actions have effects that last as long as life lasts, however long that is – on the one acting and on all, collectively, to varying degrees.”
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I think actions in this life effect things in this life and not necessarily the next life. Does that make sense?
Yes, but I would say:
Quote:“Actions have effects that last as long as life lasts, however long that is – on the one acting and on all, collectively, to varying degrees.”
I agree to that 100%. If you take drugs at a young age it could have an affect on you, your parents and your future children and even the future generations. I think all actions can have consequences but sometimes some amazing good things happen because we make choices that appear bad at the time and the church would call our choices wrong.
Quote:Sometimes some amazing good things happen because we make choices that appear bad at the time and the church would call our choices wrong.
Absolutely, even as I like a whole lot of the generalized guidelines taught in the Church when seen as generalized guidelines instead of universal, always-applicable commands.
In the words of the great Captain Sparrow, the code really is a bunch of guidelines that can be ignored sometimes, when appropriate to the unique situation.
Love, protection, education, advice, truth, beauty, light, wisdom Respect for my agency, which is implied but not stated obviously in my original comment I suppose it is the failure of our expectations that lead most of us to a board like this. Consistency is what I wish for, but I don’t really expect it anymore.
It seems for most of us our expectations of God are rather basic. I can go with that. I think anymore is an exercise in futility since we will never experience that grandiose God in this life that is taught to us. The thing is, Cadence, that some people have experienced “that grandiose God” in this life. That doesn’t mean “that grandiose God” is The One and Only True God, especially in any objective way, since it could be simply that the way they are wired is different, but it is some people’s experience and definitely many people’s hope. My own experience, in totality and particularly once in a while, is closer to “that grandiose God” than to “no God”. I draw a clear difference between my expectations, my hopes and my experiences. Some people don’t make that distinction, but I think many do. Fwiw, I find that when I expect less, I appreciate and value more – and I find that many who expect more end up valuing less.
I have let go of the former self-authored stories of God directly intervening in my life, and I have let go of the need to find evidences of it by ascribing daily events through that filter that the God of the Universe is concerned with which job I take or how to overcome stressful family situations. I expect from Him the freedom to choose and to work things out so I can get experience in this life, not the right answers (which I expect He cares little about). Part of that experience will come through passing through the refining fire or roll down the hill to smooth out some rough edges I have. I expect God is governing the plan, and that He knows I will gain experience in this life by trying to become a good person, and that the guidance He provides (scripture) will help point in a good direction while I figure it out. I expect from Him the autonomy to work out my life without Him having to micro-manage my life.
I expect God’s goodness is great enough that the hope for it helps motivate me to love my fellow brothers and sisters around me, because others need to feel that goodness. I expect from God that He will stay His hand enough to allow me to lift where I stand, to be His hands, and to reflect His love to others and to develop relationships with others that are meaningful in my life.
I expect from Him to judge my heart, and how I love others and choose to sacrifice things for better future things, like character and charity.
I expect from God that He loves me.
Cadence wrote:It seems for most of us our expectations of God are rather basic. I can go with that. I think anymore is an exercise in futility since we will never experience that grandiose God in this life that is taught to us.
I would agree with you now where I am in my life. 20 years ago, perhaps not, and the prior stages in my life were greatly benefited by the faith and hope provided by the grandiose God taught to me from the church. Therefore, I can see my kids growing up may need the same stories of God intervening in their lives in a way that provides them faith to move forward with life.The way I see things now may not be the way I see it tomorrow, nor the way others should see things or they are being fooled by a false teaching.
What is false is what does not work.
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