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I am wondering what it really means for everyone to try and stay LDS. Do you identify as Mormon? Do you believe all, part, or none of the message of the church? Why are you trying to stay LDS? For me I think the church is totally a fabrication of men. No revelation, no actual scripture, none of it rings true to me anymore. But I really like those people over at the ward building. Even the crazies in HP every week I love to listen to them. Frustrated at times but I still like to hear what they say. I like that my that wife has friends and feels some support from the sisters in the ward. I like having something in common with my neighbors.
I guess I stay LDS because I have been able to shed all the troublesome stuff and just participate at what some would consider an almost apostate level. It sort of works for me because I have kept my mouth shut for the most part and and just go along with the flow. I know that does not work for everyone but I can think of no other way for me.
It may all change tomorrow since I feel the church is trying to crack down a little and I will not conform, but until then I think I will stay LDS on my own terms.
I do identify as Mormon, but only believe some of the “restored gospel.” There are some people at the church I like and some I don’t care for much, and being away for 10 years has proven to me that I can get along just fine without going there every Sunday, although that is changing. Frankly, I’ve been to other churches and while I do believe they have truth and spirit, I am most comfortable in the LDS church. At least I know what to expect, and those parts that I do believe make sense to me. Like you, Cadence, I am learning to take what I like, keep my mouth shut and ignore the rest. To me “Staying” means finding my own meaning and value in church membership and activity. I hang heavily on the statements of JS and BY that Mormonism is truth and clings to all truth, in my mind the church is learning and maturing (as we all are) and my hope is we are growing more toward love and truth. Where we currently teach error I hope we’re moving toward truth. I look for personal growth in my life. I see trials and struggles as essential to growth, as they say a tree gets stronger from the winds. Regularly dealing with people who may have fundamental ideas and concepts different from myself can provide opportunities for struggle and growth.
One day in class the teacher asked “what was a central message that Christ taught?” A response was LOVE. This is my common ground. I seek to become a more loving human being, and I hope to encourage the world in some small way to grow in this direction. I feel that my activity at church can help me with these goals.
Quote:Do you identify as Mormon?
Absolutely. It’s in my genes, my mind and my heart. I’m Mormon in some very stereotypical ways that are important to me. Simultaneously, I’m my own brand of different, but it’s a Mormon brand, nonetheless.
Quote:Do you believe all, part, or none of the message of the church?
Part/much of the message, depending on what someone terms “the message”: all of what I see as the core message of the “Restored Gospel” (a subjective, personal view, I know); most of the theology, with various twists that are my own takes on it; some of the cultural aspects (but not a lot of other cultural aspects); not much of what I see as cultural but most members see as doctrinal truth; etc.
Quote:Why are you trying to stay LDS?
I’m not just trying; I’m dedicated passionately to staying.As I have said, I absolutely LOVE the overall theology (minus parts that I believe are cultural attachments); I love my extended family and ancestry (nearly all of whom are LDS) and LDS friends; I love the fellowship of the saints; the LDS Church has been good to me, personally, in the aggregate; I’ve studied just about every other theology, and nothing else resonates nearly as much in my mind and heart; there is no better place to learn and practice love, charity and acceptance; I don’t want to live and worship in a vacuum or echo chamber; alternative but faithful voices need to be heard; elderly widows need someone who will flirt with them (and I’m not joking when I say that); I don’t want the youth to hear only one perspective, especially one with which I don’t agree; I gained my own spiritual wings, so to speak, in the LDS Church, and I want to help others find their own wings, as well; etc. Bottom line: I am Mormon, and this is my church just as much as it belongs to anyone else – ANYONE. It’s my spiritual home, even with its warts and cultural clutter. I figure if I can help clean up my little corner of it, and help others stay with me in the journey, I will have accomplished something important.
Cadence wrote:I am wondering what it really means for everyone to try and stay LDS. Do you identify as Mormon? Do you believe all, part, or none of the message of the church? Why are you trying to stay LDS?
I believe an increasingly small part of what I hear on a given Sunday. I hope I have “chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.” It may come down to almost nothing but the sacrament prayers in the end, and at that point, maybe I won’t be allowed to stay.
I liked hawkgrrrl’s Mother’s Day post at BCC:
Quote:
This mother’s day, I challenge all of us to show our gratitude:◾ For our own mothers, in all their glorious imperfection and grace.◾ For our mother church, in all its imperfection and grace.◾ For our Heavenly Mother, who entrusted us to the care of our earthly mothers and our mother church so we could grow to achieve our infinite potential.◾ For our savior, on whom we rely for our salvation through his sacrifice.I used to have a “dancing with the one who brung me” attitude towards the church. I could be much more half-hearted and easily miffed when I thought of the church as the boyfriend I was stuck with. Thinking of the church as my mother softens my heart and slows everything down. But that’s easier to do when you’re extrapolating from a good experience with your mother.
I’m really not sure Cadence. I mean as far as what it means to be anything. What dire it mean to be “American”? What dies it mean to be “Chinese”. What dies it mean to be a decent of”X”.
What does it mean to be a race, religion, culture or inherited of?
I’m lost on that. A person in actuality is non of that but it gets taught from the youth up all the time.
Your “x” so you have to do or believe it behave or think “x”‘way?
I just here it and go what? What kind if logic is that? Fairly screwed up one.
A person is whoever they are. Of a person has to conform to a standard, or feels they have to. They are in fact showing that they are not what the person wants them to be.
And yet part of them may be, I don’t believe a person can be defined by their race, religion, culture, nationality or inheritance etc. Yet part of them might be in caring degrees.
If I look at my own example I would say at best the most I have in common with any culture, religion, national identity, society etc is at best 30%. Most would fall under 5-10 %.
What does it mean to be “Mormon” then? I have no clue. I was born in it, people insist I’m a standees identity even though I don’t fit any particular one. People insist on a label so I choose one.
But in reality I think that’s just ancestry and status qou ya talking.
I am part Mormon, I am part a lot if things. On the whole I am just me(whatever that is).
I participate as much as I can in each sphere I can relate to or have something to offer.
Mormon is part of that sphere.
But it is far from the only part, just like every other part. But it is a part.
I do identify as Mormon, because I am in fact a member of the church and I’m even active (more or less). But I do so uncomfortably. If I were in a different situation, I would probably identify as having been raised Mormon, with the implication being that my association is mainly in the past. But I’m not in a situation where that’s feasible or realistic. I stay LDS for my wife. If it weren’t for her I would probably be somewhere completely different. I don’t feel any social attachment to the church at all. I feel fairly comfortable there culturally but I don’t feel like it’s my tribe. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When my “house of faith” cracked and eventually collapsed from the earthquake of uncertainty I thought I had lost it all. What I discovered, in the rubble of recovery, was that I still had a simple, but stable foundation of belief in God and Jesus Christ. Once I’d identified the foundation I started to slowly rebuild my house of faith, one brick at a time. I was able to discard certain bricks that I no longer accepted and to put some in more prominent places than they used be.
Sometimes, when a significant portion was discarded I took the time to seek out new materials to build with.
The rebuilt house is something I believe has been built with divine guidance. In reality it will likely always need a little maintenance and remodeling. It’s probably never supposed to be considered “finished.”
It still has Mormon elements, but fewer than before. It still fits in the Mormon village of perspectives but somewhere over near the border with Universalism village. If looked at from from a certain angle some might be surprised that it is even marginally inside the Mormon border.
I think my house of faith remains mostly Mormon because I’m so fond of the core perspectives of the collective houses and because I’m so fond of the fellow residents.
Mormonism is my heritage. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Even if you quit attending, you are still in some ways Mormon. I also think one can be Mormon to varying degrees, as in “s/he’s more Mormon than I am.” To me, being active in a site like StayLDS means we want to honor our LDS-ness, and we still find spirituality through our LDS ties and experiences. For some, that’s through regular church attendance. For others, it’s more peripheral than that. Like the dude in Brokeback Mountain, we might say “I just can’t quit you.” Cadence wrote:Do you identify as Mormon?
Yes, I do, but only when convenient. I now keep my mouth shut about it much of the time.
Quote:Do you believe all, part, or none of the message of the church? Why are you trying to stay LDS?
I believe there is some truth to it. I do think there is a lot of fabrication of men in it, and I have a feel God convinced me to join because at the time I was searching in my life, it would’ve helped me be successful in life.
Quote:It may all change tomorrow since I feel the church is trying to crack down a little and I will not conform, but until then I think I will stay LDS on my own terms.
If you haven’t already explained what this sentence above means, I’m interested in knowing about the crackdown in your Ward.
Old-Timer wrote:Part/much of the message, depending on what someone terms “the message”: all of what I see as the
core message of the “Restored Gospel” (a subjective, personal view, I know); most of the theology, with various twists that are my own takes on it; some of the cultural aspects (but not a lot of other cultural aspects); not much of what I see as cultural but most members see as doctrinal truth; etc.Please, please elaborate.
:thumbup: I know DarkJedi has asked these same types of questions before, but I can’t find a decisive list of “culture vs. doctrine” stuff.
I NEED such a list b/c, for me, that’s where I need to start rebuilding “me”
For SO long I was a “rigid” Mormon…I looked down upon those who drank caffeine…I thought poorly of those who were “always sick” on Sunday…thought women should wear pantyhose (or at least knee highs) to church…etc, etc. And…my own family wasn’t holding FHE or family prayer or scripture study. Heck, I didn’t even crack my scriptures unless I was in church. Yeah, I’m very ashamed to say that I was one of those beautiful white sepulchres (Matt. 23:27). I know that scripture b/c I used to pin it on others!
:silent: I was so caught up in the…well, I don’t even know what, but I was caught up in the wrong thing! Those things aren’t doctrine…I’m not even sure they are cultural, but maybe they are. I need to be able to separate those things that are just not that important and do what IS important…whatever those things are.
Yeah – I’m changing me from the inside out. I guess I’m trying to “cleanse the inner vessel” but I need help.
As a brief aside, my mom is stressing about her funeral (years and years away) and keeps asking people if she should be cremated b/c “the church” says that it is discouraged. And I finally had enough of her talk and said (in a not so nice way), “Look, that counsel is NOT in the scriptures anywhere that I can find. The only place it’s mentioned is in the handbook that a bunch of men wrote. If you want to be cremated, then say so! I can’t imagine that those who were caught in the world trade center towers are going to be damned b/c their bodies were burned and not buried. Don’t be bullied by someone else’s policy.”
😡 But it’s that kind of thing…is cremation a cultural thing or doctrinal? And why do we stress over such things?
God is not the author of confusion – but at least *I* seem to be confused by what I SEE going on around me, what I’ve been taught all my life and what I SHOULD be doing/knowing/believing.
:crazy: Okay, I’ve rambled enough…sorry to hijack the OP…but what Ray said really stuck out at me.
I think you’re going have to make your own list QA – otherwise you end up exactly where you are, looking at the list of what someone else teaches or believes. I think cremation is an excellent example of the type of thing I fond frustrating with the church. You’re right, I don’t see it anywhere in the scriptures, either, and that’s the test we are supposed to use in the beginning to see if something is scripture or doctrine or inspired or whatever. I realize I have to be careful here, but that looks to me to be a teaching of men, not doctrine. There are really only a few things I’m pretty sure of right now. I do believe in the two great commandments and I do believe that Jesus is the Christ, the promised Messiah, the Savior and Redeemer. There are church teachings or common beliefs about Christ, though, that I really question. That whole thing with if it’s in scripture (especially the Bible) and if it is in there more than once plays heavily in what I do and do not believe are part of the gospel or are or should be doctrine. That said, I don’t necessarily think all of the teachings that are not doctrine are evil, nor do I believe most are perpetrated for an evil purpose – but I do not see the necessity of living by them nor do I view them as commandments.
DarkJedi wrote:I think you’re going have to make your own list QA – otherwise you end up exactly where you are, looking at the list of what someone else teaches or believes.
I’ve thought about that very thing.
Sometimes, though, I just need someone to bounce ideas off of…I need a common list I can work on.
Cremation is one issue.
Wearing white shirts all the time is another.
I only have one pair of earrings, but man alive, if you want to see the RS sisters start to whisper, show up with 2 earrings in each ear.
As far as what the Bible teaches…we have to be careful there…the Bible also says that women should cover their heads while praying. It’s bad enough that we have to hide our faces in the temple…let’s not take that further.
” What is the remedy? Once again, it comes from the words of the Savior:
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
“This is the first and great commandment.
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”8
EVERYTHING ELSE in life should be secondary to these two great priorities…” – Urchtdorf. April 2014 General Conference. – Priesthood Session.
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