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zeppelinate wrote:
True, family is the fundamental unit of society but even it has a chain of command so to speak as we learn in the temple and the proclamation to the family.
Perhaps the Proclamation and the temple ceremony are just the words or imperfect men? The Mormon temple ceremony and mormon concept of marriage and the family has changed and evolved over time. No reason it would not change and evolve again?
Can we sustain our leaders, and still disagree with them on these kind of mormon issues? Can I sustain the leadership, and just disagree with the concept that Zep understands the Proclamation and the temple ceremony to mean?
God allowed his chosen people to be taken captive by Babylon and that had a brutal effect on many Jews. However, God’s knowledge is higher than ours and he obviously had his reasons. Does this make him a hypocrite for the lack of love shown towards his choice sprits? Can we make the judgment call that what the blacks experienced wasn’t part of His plan too? zeppelinate wrote:Can we make the judgment call that what the blacks experienced wasn’t part of His plan too?
Yes. We can.
And I think the church leadership would agree with me, as the recent statement on the blacks and priesthood clearly stated as much.
zeppelinate wrote:By the way, how do you do the quote thing when you are responding directly to one thing I said? I’m kind of new to this forum stuff.
There is a quote button on the top right of every post. Hit it, and then just delete the portion that you don’t want. be sure to leave the square parenthesis at the beginning and end, as that is a code for formatting
cwald wrote:zeppelinate wrote:True, family is the fundamental unit of society but even it has a chain of command so to speak as we learn in the temple and the proclamation to the family.
Can we sustain our leaders, and still disagree with them on these kind of mormon issues? Can I sustain the leadership, and just disagree with the concept that Zep understands the Proclamation and the temple ceremony to mean?
CWALD I can’t answer that question. If you answer the questions honestly as you understand them then I would say yes. If you were open with your bishop and stake president concerning your position I have no idea what they would say. I’m just thankful I don’t have to make that judgement call.
cwald wrote:zeppelinate wrote:By the way, how do you do the quote thing when you are responding directly to one thing I said? I’m kind of new to this forum stuff.
There is a quote button on the top right of every post. Hit it, and then just delete the portion that you don’t want. be sure to leave the square parenthesis at the beginning and end, as that is a code for formatting
Cool thanks now I feel all formal:)zeppelinate wrote:CWALD I can’t answer that question. If you answer the questions honestly as you understand them then I would say yes. If you were open with your bishop and stake president concerning your position I have no idea what they would say. I’m just thankful I don’t have to make that judgement call.
I know how my BP and stake president feel about it. I know what most active devout mormons would say.
What I don’t know is what the gods would say. I’m not sure if the gods would react and feel the same way that most BPs and SPs and faithful mormons would about this particular issue.
Frankly, our current leadership, taken as a whole, has been saying and continues to say that members can see things differently and still be considered faithful members – and that includes things as central to the message as the Book of Mormon (Elder Holland’s PBS statement) and the nature of the Atonement. I think the top leadership cares FAR more about the way the membership lives and the type of people they become than the exact nature of their individual beliefs – and I am convinced that they would FAR prefer a loving heretic than a hateful traditionalist.
I wish all local leaders understood and accepted that view, and I think far more do than many people assume, but there are enough that don’t that it’s a crap shoot at the local level, unfortunately. There is cwald’s personal experience (which you have to read to believe) and others that has been the core of their deep suffering, and there are the experiences of others here that have been their saving grace. We are all human, so I get it, but I wish badly all of the membership was better at living the core concepts of love, grace, acceptance, respect and civility, If we were, collectively, so many of the things that drive serious faith crises would disappear and they could be merely faith transitions – which are important and even critical.
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