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rrosskopf wrote:
May I point out that technically, “fullness” just means satisfyingly full? When one is full, they are no longer hungry, but they could still eat more.
I totally agree. In the context of the restoration, having the fullness of the gospel apparently does not mean that the restoration is finished. For me this is one of many paradoxes.
DarkJedi wrote:
rrosskopf wrote:
May I point out that technically, “fullness” just means satisfyingly full? When one is full, they are no longer hungry, but they could still eat more.
I totally agree. In the context of the restoration, having the fullness of the gospel apparently does not mean that the restoration is finished. For me this is one of many paradoxes.
And this, coupled with a few conference talks, has taught me to accept that perhaps the church is not “true” yet, but is progressing toward becoming true eventually.
rrosskopf wrote:
May I point out that technically, “fullness” just means satisfyingly full? When one is full, they are no longer hungry, but they could still eat more.
[img]http://www.quickmeme.com/img/27/278e78b1abddd5afed7fab7b51e33231c13de24a452c14af0a46bbf0f2db8a5e.jpg [/img] What if the “gospel” still leaves you feeling hungry? Feeling like Oliver Twist here. The Church is like the factory, where the children sing “Food, glorious food. Food is all that I live for…”. And yet, if someone stands up and says they’re still hungry,
this is what happens.grobert93 wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:
rrosskopf wrote:
May I point out that technically, “fullness” just means satisfyingly full? When one is full, they are no longer hungry, but they could still eat more.
I totally agree. In the context of the restoration, having the fullness of the gospel apparently does not mean that the restoration is finished. For me this is one of many paradoxes.
And this, coupled with a few conference talks, has taught me to accept that perhaps the church is not “true” yet, but is progressing toward becoming true eventually.
I don’t know if the church is true or even what that means. But it does bug me when people say it’s a perfect organization run by imperfect people. It’s not perfect, if it were there would be no need for continuing revelation or continuing restoration. As far as the word “perfect” goes, it’s one of those words modern people have assigned a modern meaning when they’re reading something not modern and it had a different meaning when written. In scripture it does not mean flawless, it meant whole or complete. I don’t believe the church is whole or complete yet and I know I’m not anywhere near whole or complete – but we’re both making progress.
For me it teaches: – The personal ministry of Jesus Christ was not only for one part of the world (Eastern Hemisphere) but also for the west.
– The personal ministry of Jesus Christ was for the dead as well as the living.
– The personal ministry of Jesus Christ is for all generations.
dande48 wrote:What if the “gospel” still leaves you feeling hungry?
Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.” – John 6:66-70
rrosskopf wrote:
Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?
What someone claims is the “gift of God”, yes. That’s why I’m here.
Quote:“Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?”
Consider, please, how condescending and condemning that question sounds to someone who has been uber faithful in the past and now is struggling.
rrosskopf wrote:
dande48 wrote:What if the “gospel” still leaves you feeling hungry?
Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.” – John 6:66-70
The church isn’t for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. The church is still growing, still changing and becoming more pure. In the meantime, not everyone who attends church will find peace or satisfaction here. Which is why Elder Bednar gave a talk on home-centric gospel learning. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to “feed us until we are full”.
grobert93 wrote:The church isn’t for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to “feed us until we are full”.
Is there any man or women alive that wouldn’t benefit from repentance? Or having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion?Old Timer wrote:
Quote:“Does the gift of God seem too meager for you?”
Consider, please, how condescending and condemning that question sounds to someone who has been uber faithful in the past and now is struggling.
I guess it could be taken that way. Some people would just realize that it is a gift from God and that they should look it from that perspective. There is no need to overcomplicate things. We don’t need to know all things from the beginning. We don’t need a perfect church. We don’t need perfect prophets. We do need to know the consequences of our actions. We can learn those the hard way, or the easy way.
rrosskopf wrote:
grobert93 wrote:The church isn’t for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to “feed us until we are full”.
Is there any man or women alive that wouldn’t benefit from repentance? Or having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion?
We do not have a monopoly on repentance or the Holy Ghost (and you can spare me the lecture on the difference in the GotHG and the Holy Ghost – I think we mostly have that wrong).
rrosskopf wrote:
grobert93 wrote:The church isn’t for everyone. The church Jesus established is not equal to the LDS church today. It may have the priesthood and teach the gospel and perform the ordinances, but as former President Utchdorf himself said in conference, the restoration of the gospel is still happening. We cannot expect the church to satisfy our needs. We cannot expect the church to “feed us until we are full”.
Is there any man or women alive that wouldn’t benefit from repentance? Or having the Holy Ghost as a constant companion?
Repentance is not a unique doctrine in the LDS church, or even Christianity. The concept of forgiveness, of letting go of mistakes, of healing is a very human recognized trait and power. We emphasize it in our church because it is a key element in the progress toward receiving the ordinances that the church provides to faithful members. Of course all mankind would benefit from the holy ghost, the priesthood, the blessings from receiving their endowment, serving a mission, and so many other things. I am not denying the Church provides these opportunities for us to grow. But the church not does exclusively provide these opportunities, nor teach these principles. Likewise in context of my original post, the church itself I believe is open for forgiveness as well. The church has made mistakes in the past, and one way to help it to grow is to forgive.
rrosskopf, most of us on this forum write an Introduction that describes: Who we are, why we joined the site & what we expect to get out from our experience here. I looked & couldn’t find one for you. It would be very helpful if you could do that.
For what it’s worth. And it’s only a suggestion.
Minyan Man wrote:
rrosskopf, most of us on this forum write an Introduction that describes: Who we are, why we joined the site & what we expect to get out fromour experience here. I looked & couldn’t find one for you. It would be very helpful if you could do that.
For what it’s worth. And it’s only a suggestion.
But a very good suggestion, MM. It is often helpful for others to know where one is coming from, point of view, etc. Thanks for making the suggestion.
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