What got you comfortable with who you are in the Church?

[Anonymous]

I’ve heard people who have left Stage 3 often say they are “comfortable with who they are” around TBM’s and in the Church. I think Brian is a good case in point, where he went public with his actual facial image in his avatar and his real name on this site.

1. I’m curious, if you fall into that category, how does “being comfortable with who are” affect your behavior when in settings that are less arms length than a discussion forum (like in your Ward, if you still go).

2. What was the trigger point that led you to the point you became comfortable with who you are? What were the thought processes behind it?

3. How do you resolve the conflict between the advice in the How To Stay In The Church article (which says not to share too much divergent thinking with leaders or at Church) and your comfort level, which allows you to be public with your name, your picture, and any other local behaviors that expose what you really think about your Church membership etcetera?

Personally, I’m not comfortable at all. If I was to share what I really thought locally and in-person, I’m sure I’d be so marginalized at Church I’d probably stop going if I did that. I definitely don’t want to broadcast who I am personally on discussion forums like this either. However, I think being comfortable with who I am would actually lead to more peace and less tension over the long run — injecting a measure of greater sustainability in my activity over the long term.

Looking forward to your answers…

[Anonymous]

Not completely comfortable, but for me it is expecting imperfection in myself and others, not as a form of guilt, but as a form of realism.

[Anonymous]

I’ve never fit in, for multiple reasons – so I’ve had to be “comfortable with who I am” ever since I can remember. That has helped me tremendously – being different than pretty much everyone else at a very young age.

I also had a father who was a pragmatist and a mother who was an idealist – so I saw the interplay between different personalities and perspectives at an early age, as well.

[Anonymous]

I think this is a great topic. SilentDawning, I share a lot of the same fears and concerns. I have been battling this all week.

I feel like I am comfortable with who I am on some level but maybe not ready to tell the world all my thoughts. I am comfortable enough to wear sandals church, even while teaching GD. I feel comfortable enough to change the lessons when they don’t fit my beliefs. I have even had one gentleman in an opening pray for my class ask that I would give the correlated message. I have always had the opinion of “What are they going to do ask me to not come back?” I feel like I have always been respectful and I am always willing to help out so I think they are comfortable with me. But I also don’t go out of my way to tell other everything I think.

This has been a big problem for me this week. With Packer’s talk and all of the media surrounding it I have been very agitated. I have had a few neighbors post some hateful and uneducated comments on Facebook about gays because of Packer’s talk. I have been torn all week on how to respond to the people I live near and worship with when I really don’t agree with what they are saying. I wanted to confront them on Facebook but have not because I am afraid of the outcome or fallout. I live in Utah and my ward is only 4 blocks square.

Although I really don’t think they would ask to not come back however I too am afraid that if I am too vocal I may be marginalized at church and in the neighborhood, I have seen this happen. I am afraid of loosing my calling, it is the one thing I really enjoy about church. I am also concerned about how my actions can affect my wife and children with their friends. I think if I felt marginalized I would stop going to church and I really don’t want this to happen.

At the same time I feel like I have a responsibility to stand up for what I think is right. I guess this week has shown me that there is a limit to what I am willing to share and with who. I am not sure how I feel about this because it has consumed me this week. Maybe this will be the trigger for me to feel more comfortable with who I am and what others think of me.

Thanks for the great topic.

[Anonymous]

I used to go by the pseudonym “Valoel” in the DAMU. I did that for about a year as I was sorting a lot of things out in my heart and mind about the church. I really enjoyed writing articles for blogs and started to get involved in the management & moderation aspects of various sites. That is still my user name at NOM, but I put my real name in the signature line and use my real picture as my avatar. There were too many posts there, and I didn’t want to break the connection by asking them to change my user name.

At some point, everything just solidified for me. I also recognized a power and connection that’s created when some of us become public figures (in our own little world of Internet Mormonism). I made the decision that I wanted to really be involved in “the movement,” and it is something valuable and important to me. So I took the plunge.

I actually think it is better for most people to use pseudonyms. You can’t take things back once you lay it all out there. It’s very important for most people, especially when we are new and fresh in our crisis of faith, to be able to share intimate details of our life with complete strangers. It all happens in the very public internet. Unless someone really feels that “calling” to be out there, there’s a lot more freedom when you are semi-anonymous.

Being open and public creates different limitations. I have to limit some of the stories I tell about my experiences because it might include private details of another person’s life. That’s just one example.

SilentDawning wrote:

1. how does “being comfortable with who are” affect your behavior when in settings that are less arms length than a discussion forum (like in your Ward, if you still go).

For starters:

1. I do not live in a high-density Mormon area.

None of my neighbors or co-workers care. Most know that I am a Mormon … but almost none really understand much about it, and they just plain don’t care. My LDS orthodoxy or lack thereof isn’t a social issue. They aren’t going to shun me or tell their kids not to play with my kids. Most everyone that I know of thinks we are a cute, good, wholesome, religious-but-chilled out family they can related to.

I totally understand why people have a much harder time doing this in a community where there is almost no line of distinction between their social community, their ability to earn a living, and their status in the church. I lived one year in Provo while attending BYU, and I knew even at the young age I could never live in a place like that long-term. Well … I could probably do it now, but only because I am a lot more “mature” and comfortable as a “heretic.”

2. My family has several “black sheep” in it.

I am not the only unorthodox member of my biological family, even though my parents are very TBM.

3. I have no aspirations for any type of high-profile leadership position in the Church.

I have never been interested in this. I might change … *shrug* I would rather spend more time teaching and doing good things, than attend meetings and pester other people to support programs. I am just not that interested in the administrative aspects of the day-to-day operations of the church. I would much rather play with fire and knives with the scouts, help people with service, and teach EQ or GD class.

Like Ray, I have always been “different.” I don’t really know any other way to exist, even at church. So in that regard, I suppose this wasn’t as hard for me because I am was not making much of a transition. I have a devious part of my personality that enjoys setting people a little off balance, especially if they come across as too comfortable with their assumptions 😈 I just love throwing out some challenging thought in a church class, or making a wise crack about something in a funny way. It stirs the pot, and I see people in the room just come alive with real feelings and energy as they try to get their balance back and come up with answers or resolutions. For better or worse, that’s how God made me. I’m a life-long trouble maker 😆

I have always been fascinated by the odd things at the fringes of life, culture and society.

Now … to be honest, I have to temper my interactions. I know there are boundaries with people that should not be crossed. I feel like I have a natural sensitivity to other people. I can feel their aura (to put it in metaphysical terms), or call it social intuition if you want. There’s a fine line between pushing someone’s buttons in a positive way, and being rude or disruptive. I do actually hold down a responsible job in real life 😆

I also find it better and safer to be “edgy” and more authentic with people in one-on-one conversations than in group settings. There’s a totally different social dynamic going on in private, personal conversations with people. They don’t have to be as defensive or keep up their own public images and play out their roles. By being vulnerable myself with people like that, they open up more. I really love those kinds of connections.

SilentDawning wrote:

2. What was the trigger point that led you to the point you became comfortable with who you are? What were the thought processes behind it?

There wasn’t a single event, but at some point I deeply realized I was OK. I describe it as becoming “friends with God.” I am at peace with the world. I know I am still a screwup, but in the end, everything will be OK. Instead of trying to be someone I am not, I am trying to be the potential God actually made when I came out of His workshop. I am “filling the measure of my creation.” Part of that is being the yeast in the dough, the garlic in the sauce, a troublemaker .

I am consumed with doing good and making the world a better place. I am a screwup and fail, but it’s all going to be OK. Life is an experience and an adventure, not a test or a trick question anymore. This is the essence of the atonement and salvation, to me at least. It’s a deep sense of peace with life. I’m not at war anymore. The ironic paradox is that I could not experience this until I let go. I could not believe it until I doubted it. I couldn’t feel it until I stopped trying to understand it.

Along with this, I realized that I really don’t have an attachment to the Church. Let me be clear though, that doesn’t mean I reject it. In fact, it’s the opposite. I can now finally enjoy being a part of it. I don’t have to force it to make sense, or be “True,” or fit any expectations of perfection. I can just enjoy it for what it is (to me) as I experience it.

A few people have asked me “aren’t you afraid someone in the Church will find out what you are doing, and you will get excommunicated?” First off, I am not an enemy to the Church. That was a big realization for me. I don’t need to hide. I also don’t need to go around explaining myself to every member in my ward or stake. Nobody really cares that much, not really! LOL. I might upset some people, but I do what I do because I love my “tribe.” I want to help make the world a better place. I might be a spicy pepper, but I belong in the soup. It is as much my church as it is anyone else’s, even the prophet and apostles. I want it to be successful. I want it to work right for me and all the other people I love.

Secondly, my connection to God, and my salvation and exaltation, they are not created by the Church. They never have been, not really. The Church is a great tool for a lot of people (including me), providing help along the journey, but it’s just a church… And I think this is fully within the ideas and ideals of The Gospel.

SilentDawning wrote:

3. How do you resolve the conflict between the advice in the How To Stay In The Church article (which says not to share too much divergent thinking with leaders or at Church) and your comfort level, which allows you to be public with your name, your picture, and any other local behaviors that expose what you really think about your Church membership etcetera?

I choose not to hold a TR. That’s a decision I make. It is partly an LDS “political” decision. In my mind, I am held to a “lesser” standard in terms of church governance. I guess it is a way of protecting myself from the expectations of more orthodox people in the church, giving myself freedom to be more controversial in public. I suppose I am caving to that pressure. But it’s a thoughtful social calculation I make. I am fine with it. I could change my mind in the future.

I am not unworthy, flawed, dirty, less of a person, less of a citizen, or anything else like that. But the temple is their building, and they make the rules. It’s just a building … I am totally comfortable answering ALL the belief questions in my own way — seriously, no problem at all. I do not care if the BP or SP thinks about the symbolic and metaphorical nature of our religion differently than me. That’s not my problem! I can’t help it if other people don’t agree with me. They don’t have to. I don’t need them to validate me. I don’t answer to them. I answer to God.

Two big things for me though are tithing and word of wisdom. I have certain personal issues and dynamics with tithing at the moment I don’t want to go into. And my view of the WofW is radically different than the expectations of contemporary practice. It’s enough that I could not answer truthfully if asked about the complete abstinence from the “forbidden four.” As part of my journey, I just really lost any meaningful spiritual connection to the current interpretation of the WofW most members expect. I am very connected to health and spirituality, and a lot of the positive prescriptions in the WofW.

SilentDawning wrote:

However, I think being comfortable with who I am would actually lead to more peace and less tension over the long run — injecting a measure of greater sustainability in my activity over the long term.

A sense of integrity, being open and authentic, is the single biggest obstacle to a conscious practice of “middle-way” or “cafeteria” Mormonism (as opposed to the millions of members who practice it unconsciously). It is by far the biggest concern for most people in the long run.

That sense of peace is very important, regardless of which direction you end up. Nothing in life is forever. Stop worrying about where you will be in 10 or 20 years. Be in the present!

I might leave the church some day. I might make a big u-turn and become outwardly orthodox and a bishop or stake president someday too. *shrug* That’s all interesting perhaps, but the only moment that is real is NOW.

[Anonymous]

Brian — thanks for writing out this detail — it must’ve taken some time to do that. I was VERY interested in your own ideas on this as I both admire and am fearful of “going commando” with who I am online or in person. But I was considering doing it for sustainability and authenticity reasons. I think we have all felt the power of being real and authentic with other people in non-Church or interprersonal contexts, and I have toyed with the idea of being that way in my Church relationships on certain issues — even with leaders who want to call me to positions etcetera.

Here are my impressions — while I’ve been considering being more open about who I am at Church, I realize that some of the variables you have in your situation don’t line up for me personally (What’s nice, is I know you’re OK with that).

For example, I WOULD like to have the option of holding down a more responsible calling in the future, although I don’t think I can even consider it right now. Also, I do have family with important expectations and young children that need a simple ideology to follow, not some complex philosophical combination of paradoxes and such, where I’m headed right now. So, I recognize that to be totally out of the closet would have some repercussions I would find hard to live with.

But I have also had glimmerings of that peace with yourself and God, in spite of not totally believing everything literally at Church anymore. For me, I think God has made absolute truth very difficult to find, even to the sincere seeker of truth. I fasted for three solid days for a testimony of the Gospel, and it never came, but a year later, on almost a whim, I knelt down and prayed about whether I should join, and felt overpowering spirituality. But that memory has been subject to doubt and challenges as I’ve experienced the Church through middle-aged eyes kicked around by life experience in the Church. So, to me, those feelings are no longer absolutes.

So, given the murkiness of the waters, I feel there will be great mercy shown for the seeker who needed more evidence than warm fuzzies…sought it diligently, and didn’t get it …the lack of clear knowledge after seeking brings me peace. It’s almost a release from certain forms of accountability because of the uncertainty of the way absolute truth is found in our mortal experience. It doesn’t mean I’m void of conscience, or a desire to do good, or to even latch on to those good things in the Church for the strength of my character, but it means I don’t feel the same pressure to do everything to the nth degree anymore.

However, my peace is not as total as yours right now. I still have nagging doubts I might be wrong, and am sometimes full of fear when I hear certain conference talks which speak in terms of absolutes.

However, I want to thank you for what you’ve written here — I’ve been very interested in your thought processes ever since I saw you place your picture and your name on your account….you remind me very much of a colleague of mine who thought outside the box regularly, and strangely enough, had a Ph.D. in ethics at the same time. His view of the world was different and inspiring at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

1. I’m curious, if you fall into that category, how does “being comfortable with who are” affect your behavior when in settings that are less arms length than a discussion forum (like in your Ward, if you still go).

As Brian said, I’m not an enemy of the church. I’m not an outsider. I’m not a freeloader. I pull my weight, and I toe the line. I stand by the things I have said on line, if I’m asked. But like everyone, I’m on my own spiritual journey. I’m not on the church’s PR payroll. The money’s all flowing the other direction, last I checked.

Quote:

2. What was the trigger point that led you to the point you became comfortable with who you are? What were the thought processes behind it?

It’s probably been about 22 years for me, which is a long time. It dates to when I had my BOM experience where I decided that I needed to be in the church. But I still had my own opinions about everything. I didn’t turn off my brain. I have always been challenging and questioning – my PB even says that I am that way. I guess I always had a healthy superiority complex. 😆

Quote:

3. How do you resolve the conflict between the advice in the How To Stay In The Church article (which says not to share too much divergent thinking with leaders or at Church) and your comfort level, which allows you to be public with your name, your picture, and any other local behaviors that expose what you really think about your Church membership etcetera?

I can’t be other than who I am. But I’m also not “in your face” about it. Nobody (on the whole) cares what my opinion is because I’m pro-church and pro-individual, and I pull my weight. If anyone disagrees with me, I’m as entitled to my opinion as they are. People respect authenticity. You can’t break into a flopsweat whenever someone sees the “real you.” Easier said than done at times.

[Anonymous]

There are a few Internet communities where I use my real name and image in my avatar. I’m not in line for any important callings and doubt I ever would be. I also enjoy challenging brain-dead orthodox views in SS and PH, and I’m pretty sure people know I’m not a peter priesthood by any means. However, unlike Brian, Hawk and other posters, I live in the heart of the MorCor surrounded by LDS neighbors and TBM family members. I’m not shy on where I stand on some controversial issues in the church and I’ll give my opinion if asked, but the reason I’m not totally “out” on these forums has less to do with me and more with my wife and kids. People around us can be very judgmental at times, and if word got out about all of my online activities, it’d probably subject my kids to teasing and harassment at school and church, likely cost them some friends, and my wife would have to deal with even more gossip at church about her “loose cannon” husband than she already hears. Having said all of that, if someone knows me and reads my postings online, they’ll probably know it’s me. I’ve given out enough personal details about myself here and elsewhere. But I’m guessing most people I associate with at church probably wouldn’t connect the dots, and I’m willing to keep it that way to keep my family from being turned into pariahs.

[Anonymous]

I am mostly comfortable because I only do what I want in the church. I never let myself get pressed into anything anymore. That was always my biggest frustration as a TBM that if the church was so true why did I hate all my callings. Also the fact that I think it is man made for the most part alleviates the guilt factor.

[Anonymous]

behappy wrote:

I am comfortable enough to wear sandals church, even while teaching GD. I feel comfortable enough to change the lessons when they don’t fit my beliefs. I have even had one gentleman in an opening pray for my class ask that I would give the correlated message.

😆 Maximum respect, oh great sandal-wearer Sunday School teacher. That’s a bit out of the every day for a boy.

As for me, I have no special insights or success stories. I simply am what I am. And I am inspired by the rest of you and by Carol Lynn Pearson: “So somebody who wants to stay in the church I feel could be more comfortable trying to be open about some of these things rather than sitting there and stewing and causing contention, or just taking everything in and letting it fester. I would not be able to do that.”

[Anonymous]

I just roll along being who I am, trying to improve myself at times, trying to insert my opinions at times, and trying to lay low at times. For the most part, I am one who has a good capacity for leadership so have had to serve in those roles at times. I have had the blessing of having good bishops who know me pretty well and know how to deal with me… how to take the good with the irritating, I suppose. I’ve probably been viewed as an atypical Mormon for quite some time. A long while back a non-LDS friend referred to me as a “rogue Mormon”, whatever that means.

There have been times when an assignment clashes with my beliefs, and I’ve worried that I’ll be pressed or pushed until I unload all my misgivings or just quit, but, like I say, so far I’ve had good bishops who were willing to listen and able to understand my perspective (and at times even agree).

I still have trouble doing lots of things in the church, but it’s getting easier to just tell the powers that be that I’m going to do the task or calling my way. I can’t be the typical mormon boy or mormon leader because that’s just not me. I’m not trying to be obstinate or rock the mormon boat, just trying to stay true to myself and true to what I feel and believe. I also always reserve the right to change my mind… like Brian.

Lately, my previously TBM wife has started expressing more and more beliefs and thoughts that jive with my own. Where she was previously really worried, panicked, stressed, and fearful about my “coming out” (expressing to her my doubts and beliefs), she now seems much more accepting. I think she was very worried I’d leave the church but now feels more confident that I have found my place within it. Maybe that confidence has allowed her to express her true views, which I’ve always thought were quite similar to my own. Interestingly, when I was very TBM when first married, she tended to resist that… wasn’t comfortable with that. We sort of switched our roles as the years progressed. Maybe now we are now starting to land in the same place.

I realize I’ve not really answered the question, but rambled….

[Anonymous]

Excellent question SD!

For me the comfort level has come with reading a lot of the prominent thinkers of the church: Hugh B. Brown, Eugene England, Lowell Bennion, Leonard Arrington, etc. I have come to realize the whole church is not in the lock-step that I once thought – and I love that revelation! It makes so much more sense to me that we are all here trying to obtain some increased understanding for ourselves.

I do try to temper my personal thoughts according to the audiences ability to receive, Joseph Smith said basically the same thing – that he could not teach the members everything as he understood it – so why should I feel bad about it? It becomes a principle of the gospel, personal revelation is often very personal – we should not “cast our pearls before swine.” If my understanding of some topics is different than most members so be it, I can only believe and understand things as they have been made known to me …and try to understand the views of others with charity.

It also helps that I have had in depth discussions with one of my local leaders, and he completely backs me in my personal journey. We agree that faith connotes action, and I am willing to act in line with my present understanding and the hope for further enlightenment (without prescribing the future path before it is known).

Obviously personal situations and how you view yourself in relation to your surroundings makes a huge difference, no two people will be in the same boat – completely. It takes some time and effort to get your bearings and become comfortable in your unique situation. It helps to learn to express yourself in language that is comfortable to the people around you. That also takes time, contemplation, and practice to become comfortable with what you mean by what you say. Even if you despise a rose bush for its thorns, you can learn to look past them and call the roses beautiful again.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

For me the comfort level has come with reading a lot of the prominent thinkers of the church: Hugh B. Brown, Eugene England, Lowell Bennion, Leonard Arrington, etc. I have come to realize the whole church is not in the lock-step that I once thought – and I love that revelation!

Thanks, Orson. Great “to-read” list.

[Author]

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