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Although I am MUCH happier now in my relationship with the church than I was a few years ago, the thread that Heber13 resurrected about the Philosophies of Men, mingled with scripture reminded me of what I have lost, or perhaps better put — how I have evolved. At that time of that thread — 2012 — I was teaching priesthood HP group. I was able to hold my own in classes as a teacher, and although my relationship with the church was evolving, I was still able to teach about 60% of the doctrine without feeling badly or disagreeable about it.
Now, I don’t think I could teach it all. As I have followed the dictates of my own conscience, I’ve been led to a much different paradigm of what my life is about, how to use my disposable time, and the place the church has in dictating how I should live my life. I would have trouble teaching a whole myriad of topics at this point.
Anyone else feel that way? Is this sometimes the price of moving through Fowlers’ Stages of Faith?
SilentDawning wrote:Although I am MUCH happier now in my relationship with the church than I was a few years ago, the thread that Heber13 resurrected about the Philosophies of Men, mingled with scripture reminded me of what I have lost, or perhaps better put — how I have evolved.
At that time of that thread — 2012 — I was teaching priesthood HP group. I was able to hold my own in classes as a teacher, and although my relationship with the church was evolving, I was still able to teach about 60% of the doctrine without feeling badly or disagreeable about it.
Now, I don’t think I could teach it all. As I have followed the dictates of my own conscience, I’ve been led to a much different paradigm of what my life is about, how to use my disposable time, and the place the church has in dictating how I should live my life. I would have trouble teaching a whole myriad of topics at this point.
Anyone else feel that way? Is this sometimes the price of moving through Fowlers’ Stages of Faith?
I would have to say I feel I am following in your footsteps. There are several lessons I just can’t teach, but we don’t seem to have any “don’t say anything not in the lesson manual” extremists. So I can start with one lesson and quickly pivot to something else. I think they just don’t want to be terribly bored.Our ward is highly educated — Men and women. Often the RS lessons are taught by women who are trying to bring more into the lessons. Unfortunately, we have a few very vocal TBM who are quick to shoot down anything that they see as a threat. You all know that person. They have 20 quotes from GAs memorized. Any time anything is stated that the TBM doesn’t agree with, they quickly quote one of their 20 quotes as as way of cutting off the conversation, making sure everyone knows THEY ARE RIGHT, and affirming their place on “The Lord’s Side”. They keep the conversations from getting real.
My tolerance for that behavior is at an all time low.
When I was in the throws of my faith crisis I asked to be released as gospel doctrine teacher because I felt I could not teach that which I don’t believe. I certainly have evolved, but there are things I can now teach that I couldn’t then. The Sabbath is one example – I’m comfortable teaching it now. Separating the church and the gospel and understanding it’s not all or nothing has helped that evolution. There are still things I can’t teach though. amateurparent, I’ve been in a few PH quorums like that. It’s deflating to say the least. I’ve evolved and I’m certain I’m not done evolving. Right now I might enjoy the opportunity to teach again. Coming up with a lesson might be the perfect opportunity to measure how I’ve changed and to serve as a catalyst to change a bit more.
I’ve been different for so long that I am comfortable teaching. I see it like listening to Elder McConkie then Pres. Uchtdorf. If both of them can teach so radically differently, it’s okay for me to do so, as well.
Something I find discouraging about teaching .. A year ago, if I had taught about a rock in a hat, I would have been viewed as an apostate.
amateurparent wrote:Something I find discouraging about teaching ..
A year ago, if I had taught about a rock in a hat, I would have been viewed as an apostate.
I think there’s a possibility that if you taught about rocks in hats today you would STILL be viewed as an apostate because the general membership doesn’t know much about the releases the church has made to the press, the articles on LDS.org, etcetera. And many would be in denial.
I find it so ironic that as a church, we are MORE into the truth business than any other church (one true church, I know it’s true, missionary lessons on how to distinguish truth from error), yet our own members are bound by “incorrect” truth of generations past. And that even our own truth is changing as the internet makes dissemination of historical facts uncontrollable…
AP wrote Quote:Any time anything is stated that the TBM doesn’t agree with, they quickly quote one of their 20 quotes as as way of cutting off the conversation, making sure everyone knows THEY ARE RIGHT, and affirming their place on “The Lord’s Side”.
I am such a spiteful old bitty, I too carry around GA quotes, mine are just the opposite though and I loooove to play quote off in RS. It’s a bit vindictive but I just can’t quite let it go.
😈 I miss what I’ve lost in a certain aspect. Not most of it, but some of it. What I have found is that I believe I look at life through more open eyes. Everything has pro’s and con’s. I can see things from both points of view. This is a tough place to be, because neither side can see the other. I cringe with both sides, too. When a die hard from either position gets going I have to grit my teeth and walk away. I wonder where I will be in 2 years?
I believe that at some point the meetings and lessons may not nourish you anymore. That can be for a variety of reasons. When that happens I find it appropriate to find what does nourish you. I have been in leadership in Toastmasters. There are target goals for growing the club and for individual progress. As leaders we try to recruit and encourage members forward. Sometimes we wrestle with why some former star members no longer come or current members are not progressing.
My answer is that it is no longer fulfilling their needs. People can come to toastmasters for a number of reasons. Some may continue on indefinitely and find joy in the leadership positions. Others may accomplish what they set out to do and “graduate.” Still others may just get bored and start missing meetings. I have been upfront that I do not plan on being a lifelong member.
Some of this can also apply to the church as a volunteer organization. Those that are getting needs met and that plan to stay the course long term can have trouble understanding why anybody else would not do the same.
Roy wrote:Some of this can also apply to the church as a volunteer organization. Those that are getting needs met and that plan to stay the course long term can have trouble understanding why anybody else would not do the same.
It’s harder in the church because of the “endure to the end concept”. In secular organizations like Toastmasters, for me, it’s a foregone conclusion that people will move on after they get the experience they want. I agree, for some, they like the leadership and the familiarity with the organization. Incidentally, I joined toastmasters at the age of 20, and went for 2 years, after my younger sister won a speaking competition and I realized how inept I was speaking in front of people. Now I do it for living
I seriously have so much more to learn, process, and understand that I don’t see it as much about what I’ve “lost or evolved” as much as just doing what Roy said, and finding the nourishing things through new views. I don’t think I’m up or down in spirituality or faith, just side to side different views of it while still on pursuit. I don’t think others are “wrong” and I don’t see manuals as difficult to teach.
I agree or disagree with things, and focus on how to humbly learn from others at church, even if I completely disagree with what is coming out of their mouths.
I would say I lost a sense of security on the church being true, and gained a sense of love and tolerance for it’s weaknesses and failures as I fine tune the vision of the value of the church to me and why it was important Joseph Smith restore it. There really is value to StayLDS, even if it has nothing to do with many things in the lesson manuals that don’t nourish me much.
I have lots to learn still, and imagine in 5 years, I will have lost many thoughts I currently have and evolved further.
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