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After posting my introduction recently, I wanted to put together my main frame of reference at the moment. I’m aware that sometimes my frustrations bubble over and I might seem to lose some reasoning. I wanted to put into writing where my beliefs and testimony exists. What I know:This used to be a longer list. I used to say, with certainty, that I know the Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ in 1820. At the moment I can’t. I’m not sure I’ll ever use that particular phrase again. I’ve realised that to ‘know’ is over-used and inaccurate phrase in the church.
I accept that people can eliminate doubt and feel fully convinced and confident. This isn’t knowing, but it feels like knowing. To know something you need to observe it through inquiry. Alma taught us how to know (and people often misquote this section of scripture). He compares the word to a seed… not faith (even though the primary song says otherwise ‘Faith is like a little seed: If planted it will grow’).
He teaches:
Quote:“It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to eenlighten my funderstanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.” (Alma 32:28)
He goes on to explain that once we have been able to act on the principle taught and experience it and repeat it we can eventually know that it works. A non-scriptural example. I know that running is tiring at first, but when I persist it exhilarates me by the third or fourth day of doing it. I know because I’ve started (and stopped) running many time over (as my belt notches will attest).
Therefore I’m happy to say there are certain aspects of the gospel that I know are real, living principles:
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I knowthat reading the Book of Mormon is uplifting, inspiring, enlightening for me and makes a difference to my attitude that day. I know this because, like running, I’ve started and stopped enough times to know and see the difference. –
I knowthat going to the temple, attending endowment sessions, sealings and finding quiet corners to pray and ponder has given me real personal education about my life, my opportunities and my character. I love, love, love the temple endowment. I love it because I have repeatedly attended and have realised I’m sitting through one of the greatest of all parables. A living parable. I’ll post in more detail on that another time (while respecting sanctity and covenants). –
I knowthat the principles my children are being taught in terms of self-discipline, health, charitable attitudes are, overall and in balance, a positive of moral guidelines for life. –
I knowthat when I’m trying to be like Jesus and follow his example of compassion and charity found in the New Testament, that I treat others better and my family is more harmonious. I knowtherefore, that Christ’s example can help is live better and kinder lives. –
I knowthat the experience of feeling forgiven and the experience of forgiving others is one of the most brilliantly liberating, emotionally uplifting experiences available. All of those mentioned I feel comfortable saying ‘I know’ – because they are based on planting a seed of that principle in faith and experiencing the tangible consequences. I don’t expect other people to say they know the same things as they are only based on my experience. If you’re someone who has always had an unpleasant experience in the temple, that’s understandable that you personally wouldn’t know that point.
What I Believe(and some things I hope) Currently, the aspects that are outside the realms of information based on observable experience. This is where I create a line between ‘I know’ and everything else. These are things I believe are true and hope are true. But I’ve not eliminated all doubts or uncertainty. I don’t think, based on Alma 32, that we’re expected to be able to ‘know’ these things, only have faith and hope in them. My faith and belief in these are currently somewhat fragile, but there is still enough to get them listed.
– I believe there is a God.
– I believe that many teachers (religious and otherwise, mormon and otherwise) are inspired to help people get the best out of their life.
– I believe Jesus Christ was a real person who taught wonderful saving principles. Saving as in life saving, life changing. I hope the resurrection is a reality, though I’m uncertain about the full nature of it and role of multiple interpretations of the afterlife.
– I believe that Joseph Smith was a genuine truth seeker, well intentioned and someone established things that benefited many generations after him. I believe leaders since him have also been generally inspired men. I believe most have said some things that are either speculation, personal interpretation or an misunderstood/misapplied opinion which have later been reframed as doctrine.
What I doubt(or have a high level of uncertainty about) – The actual existence of the the Mormon defined Godhead and circumstances of post-mortality.
– The LDS exclusivity of truth claims. I know prophets acknowledge others have some small portions but also claim we are the only ones with all truth.
– The literal story of the core foundation of the church (visions, translation, priesthood restoration).
– The actual existence of the people in the Book of Mormon story (this is painful to write, I’ll be gutted if I never get to meet Moroni2. He is a personal hero and I want to hug him one day for being a wonderful example).
– The need for all humankind to ultimately pass through Mormon ordinances to gain the highest level of personal post-mortal happiness.
– Mormonism being the ‘highest’ of all ways to God. In fact I sometimes wonder if we’re being given one of the most basic because we need to be commanded in some many things and are not trusted to self-regulated.
I worry that my uncertainties will grow and my beliefs will diminish. I hope I’ll never patronise myself by denying that I have had deeply meaninful, uplifting and life-changing experiences while serving and studying in the church and church settings. But I may decide that source of those feelings were not divine.
If I can only say the information above, will it be enough. When the challenges to testimony come, will I be able to fully withstand them? Am I on an unsure foundation. Is my house on the sand at risk of falling flat?
mackay11 wrote:I worry that my uncertainties will grow and my beliefs will diminish. I hope I’ll never patronise myself by denying that I have had deeply meaninful, uplifting and life-changing experiences while serving and studying in the church and church settings. But I may decide that source of those feelings were not divine.
I really appreciate your testimony. I am glad for the things that you know, glad for the things that you doubt, and glad for the things that you hope for.
I hope that even as your list of things that you doubt may grow. You will hold onto some things that you hope for. It doesn’t need to be an evenly matched list – just authentic.
mackay11 wrote:If I can only say the information above, will it be enough. When the challenges to testimony come, will I be able to fully withstand them? Am I on an unsure foundation. Is my house on the sand at risk of falling flat?
In my current life situation, I am coming to embrace uncertainty. If you know that you live near a fualt line, you run earthquake drills – you prepare even knowing that the awesome power of the earth might still crush you flat. How does this compare to someone who lives in a relatively stable part of the earth that feels no need to plan for tremblings, and is shocked and bewildered when “the big one” does finally hit? Are Californians superior to Utahns? or are Utahns smarter than the Californians that are crazy enough to build in such an unstable location? Perhaps we are all just people trying to get along the best way we know how.
BTW the metaphor is very limited – I believe that some Utahns with 72 hour kits and basements full of food may survive a major disaster quite well, but then again we were refering to spiritual foundations were we not?
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for posting such a thoughtful summary of your beliefs. I have been trying to figure out my own beliefs for awhile now. Your reasons for your beliefs are similar to my reasons for the things I believe or am trying to believe. I especially liked when you said we might be on a lower left eleven since we have to be commanded in so many things. I hate all the rules and the Pharisee-likeness of our church. So I keep the ones I like: forgiveness, love your neighbor, the golden rule and also I keep the ones required by my wife: wow and loc. Other than that I am glad to have some freedom from Mormon guilt.
Brian wrote:Thank you for posting such a thoughtful summary of your beliefs. I have been trying to figure out my own beliefs for awhile now. Your reasons for your beliefs are similar to my reasons for the things I believe or am trying to believe.
I especially liked when you said we might be on a lower left eleven since we have to be commanded in so many things. I hate all the rules and the Pharisee-likeness of our church. So I keep the ones I like: forgiveness, love your neighbor, the golden rule and also I keep the ones required by my wife: wow and loc. Other than that I am glad to have some freedom from Mormon guilt.
Thanks Brian. I’ll preface by saying that sometimes I’ll seem to contradict myself. It’s not intended, but a forum like this is ideal for someone like me who seems to nudge a few degrees daily in my perspective. And sometimes a full 180. As Fiddler on the Roof’s lead character, Topol would say “on the other hand…” – I find it healthy.
So regarding the need to be commanded in all things. I suppose that’s a human trait. We seem to be too uncertain and need to told. Even though the prophets have told us we shouldn’t need it. We hang on every word of church leaders and them transform it into dogma without them asking us to.
Regarding strict obedience over self-discovered moral principles, I ask myself this:
Are we preparing to be artists or scientists?
If artists then it doesn’t really matter what strict rules we follow. A big blue slodge on a canvas can, in some eyes, be as beautiful as a meticulous rendition of a landscape. What matters is the artist’s personal development and free expression.
But if scientists, it does need consistent application of strict rules. If we are preparing to be great biologists, chemists and physicists in the sky, then the discipline of obedience to laws, even apparently trivial ones, is important.
Is God asking us to be faithful over a few thing, so he can make us ruler over many things (Matt 25:21)?
“On the other hand…” In the parable the master didn’t tell them how to multiply the talents, or even that he wanted them multiplied at all, so maybe he’s asking us for independent personal reinvestment based on our best judgement.
I’m not sure (and that’s the rub).
I was just reading in the collection of essays called How I Stay yesterday. I was reading the essay by Bill Bradshaw, biology professor at BYU. One of the things he said in the essay is very illuminating in light of your comments: “Looking back, I’m pretty sure there was a time as a Latter-day Saint when, though I didn’t know everything, I thought I could handle the great questions about faith. Moreover, I probably unconsciously assumed that whatever uncertainties I had would diminish with age and experience. I was wrong. Now I find myself in the very paradoxical state of being less sure about a whole lot of things, but having greater faith.”
Where can I find this collection on essays? Also, THANK you for the thoughtful post. I can relate so much. I bought it for Kindle, but it is also available in book form. Only $6 on Kindle. A great read so far. I’ll try to post a few more tidbits here and there. I give 2 thumbs up for the How I Stay book. I bought it for our family last Christmas. There are some wonderful gems from people who are much farther down the road. I love Armand Mauss’s statement that the more he learns the less he knows. He goes on to explain that he is now more comfortable not knowing. It actually makes him more peaceful. Thanks both for the book recommendation. I’ll look it up. When I started down this path I set one clear premise. I did not want to leave the Mormon faith. It was not an exit strategy.
I still don’t want to. Now I just need to establish a staying strategy!
Oh the irony… This book sounds like a good support in developing one.
Thanks so much for this post. I look forward to your thoughts on the endowment as a living parable. Ann wrote:Thanks so much for this post. I look forward to your thoughts on the endowment as a living parable.
I plan to soon. Would it go in ‘Spirituality’ or ‘Doctrine and History’? Still trying to find my way around.
It’s such a tragedy that both active and non-members take the endowment so literally. That’s one of the things that spoils it.
I’m also trying to work out how much detail to go into. It’s sacred not secret and the full session is on youtube for all to see. I’ll clearly not discuss signs, names and tokens (although they are an important part) but will try to share a few thoughts to give some new ways of considering what many people see as our cultish embarrassment.
I think it is a beautiful list and a great start! mackay11 wrote:When the challenges to testimony come, will I be able to fully withstand them? Am I on an unsure foundation. Is my house on the sand at risk of falling flat?
One day it hit me that challenges only test the “sandy” foundation, when we’re built on the rock there is no challenge to our stability. If we don’t know what foundation we’re on we should welcome the “attacks” so we can find out. If we find ourselves on the rock, we can keep building with some confidence. If we find ourselves on the sand we should be thankful to have our errors “washed away” so we can seek out the rock on which to build.
This realization forever changed the way I look at the cultural teaching that I was raised with that “we should only read approved sources because the lies of the devil can be so tempting and satisfying to the natural man that once you get tangled in his web of deceit you may never find your way out.” That idea today sounds so off and frankly so cultish (the need to control information) that I can’t even express. Truth fears no untruth. Error cannot be stronger in the end than truth. Truth is the rock. Error is the sand. Bring on the rain!
mackay11 wrote:Ann wrote:Thanks so much for this post. I look forward to your thoughts on the endowment as a living parable.
I plan to soon. Would it go in ‘Spirituality’ or ‘Doctrine and History’? Still trying to find my way around.
It’s such a tragedy that both active and non-members take the endowment so literally. That’s one of the things that spoils it.
I’m also trying to work out how much detail to go into. It’s sacred not secret and the full session is on youtube for all to see. I’ll clearly not discuss signs, names and tokens (although they are an important part) but will try to share a few thoughts to give some new ways of considering what many people see as our cultish embarrassment.
Please do, and soon. It sounds like it could fit into either category, but the very kind admins will fix any problems. In talking with people who have left the church entirely, and consulting my own thoughts and feelings, it’s pretty clear that something important has been lost on the majority of us. I realize there isn’t just one, true meaning, and that there are other good facets to the experience – being with family, receiving personal revelation, performing service, etc. – but many people struggle to find the beauty.
What a great list, I’m still working on my own. I have found that one of the benefits of going on my faith journey is a deeper study of all parts of my belief. Not taking anything for granted, and taking everything apart and putting it together again is so beneficial. Unfortunately as a TBM I was never inspired to do that. rebeccad wrote:What a great list, I’m still working on my own. I have found that one of the benefits of going on my faith journey is a deeper study of all parts of my belief. Not taking anything for granted, and taking everything apart and putting it together again is so beneficial. Unfortunately as a TBM I was never inspired to do that.
When it’s working and comfortable we’ve no reason to, so don’t beat yourself up. Until recently I had a domino testimony.
I had a sense of certainty that the Book of Mormon is of divine origins. I had what I understood to be spiritual witnesses around the temple experience and Joseph Smith’s prophetic calling and First Vision.
As a result the Dominoes simply cascaded into place for all the other aspects of gospel principles. Once a few gaps appeared in the domino sequence it no longer falls into place so easily. I need to find ways of bridging the gaps… Or a different analogy!
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