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I’ve come to realize that a certain pattern of hopeful thoughts and feelings that I experience is probably not inspired by God. This has become apparent when I realize that I can’t think of a single case where these feelings have led to anything resembling success. I remember times on my mission feeling that about knocking on a particular door, only for it to be cussed out by the militant lesbian on the other side. I had that kind of feeling about going to California (something I didn’t do because nothing worked out to make that possible). I felt that I would meet my wife there. Then I felt that way about my ex-girlfriend when we started dating- that I would marry her. I mean, I guess that could still happen since we ended on good terms and left the door open to be revisited in the distant future, but that’s not the point. The point is these feelings weren’t inspired. But that got me thinking. I don’t think that’s how God works. I suspect it’s extraordinarily rare when God gives someone specific directions or prophecies. He expects us to figure things out for ourselves and does little more than put his stamp of approval on good choices. I think one of the biggest learning experiences in this life is the fact that so much is uncertain, so we should be willing to try things we wouldn’t normally try and see what happens. I think that helps us to learn faith in the sense of being willing to do things without having to know much about their outcome while being confident that it will all work out for good in some way or another.
I agree that some forms of inspiration are individually tailored form God, some are lucky coincidences, and some are just a certain pattern of hopeful thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, in order to dissect out which one is which (if they can be segregated), you would have to understand everything about a person’s individual plan in order to define “successful”.
A few years ago I knew that we were supposed to add to our family – this was inspiration for both husband and myself. So we worked it out and prepared for it – only to have a miscarriage. God helped me through it – and I reached out to people who could help me through the process.
According to what we knew, we were not “successful” – there was no baby, therefore there was no inspiration. I remember praying through my tears and wondering what was next, and asking if God was aware we had gone a 180 degrees from “the plan”. I was not bitter, just woefully confused. I am still confused, but am at peace with the situation enough to realize that it might have been part of God’s plan for us, or it might have been a detour we went through because of mortal physical circumstances.
But if “success” is defined by letting us have an experience that softened our hearts, made us more compassionate towards others and drew others to us in our sorrow, then that was “success” – and that might have been the plan God had all along…
[P.S. When the confusion died down we had our rainbow baby we named Terra. So that chapter of my life has a happier ending
I have to agree with you. Most of it I think is confirmation bias. I think God has very little interaction with us on purpose, and I think that’s backed up in scripture (but certainly not in F&TM). I accidentally came across this old talk recently while searching for something else. It’s a BYU devotional from when Elder Oaks was only Pres. Oaks, but I really appreciate it for what it really says – not all prayers are answered. Quote:What about those times when we seek revelation and do not receive it? We do not always receive inspiration or revelation when we request it. Sometimes we are delayed in the receipt of revelation, and sometimes we are left to our own judgment. We cannot force spiritual things. It must be so. Our life’s purpose to obtain experience and to develop faith would be frustrated if our Heavenly Father directed us in every act, even in every important act. We must make decisions and experience the consequences in order to develop self-reliance and faith.
Even in decisions we think very important, we sometimes receive no answers to our prayers. This does not mean that our prayers have not been heard. It only means that we have prayed about a decision which, for one reason or another, we should make without guidance by revelation. Perhaps we have asked for guidance in choosing between alternatives that are equally acceptable or equally unacceptable. I suggest that there is not a right and wrong to every question. To many questions, there are only two wrong answers or two right answers. Thus, a person who seeks guidance on which of two different ways he should pursue to get even with a person who has wronged him is not likely to receive a revelation. Neither is a person who seeks guidance on a choice he will never have to make because some future event will intervene, such as a third alternative that is clearly preferable. On one occasion, my wife and I prayed earnestly for guidance on a decision that seemed very important. No answer came. We were left to proceed on our own best judgment. We could not imagine why the Lord had not aided us with a confirming or restraining impression. But it was not long before we learned that we did not have to make a decision on that question because something else happened that made a decision unnecessary. The Lord would not guide us in a selection that made no difference.
No answer is likely to come to a person who seeks guidance in choosing between two alternatives that are equally acceptable to the Lord. Thus, there are times when we can serve productively in two different fields of labor. Either answer is right. Similarly, the Spirit of the Lord is not likely to give us revelations on matters that are trivial. I once heard a young woman in testimony meeting praise the spirituality of her husband, indicating that he submitted every question to the Lord. She told how he accompanied her shopping and would not even choose between different brands of canned vegetables without making his selection a matter of prayer. That strikes me as improper. I believe the Lord expects us to use the intelligence and experience he has given us to make these kinds of choices. When a member asked the Prophet Joseph Smith for advice on a particular matter, the Prophet stated:
It is a great thing to inquire at the hands of God, or to come into His presence: and we feel fearful to approach Him on subjects that are of little or no consequence. [Teachings, p. 22]
Of course we are not always able to judge what is trivial. If a matter appears of little or no consequence, we can proceed on the basis of our own judgment. If the choice is important for reasons unknown to us, such as the speaking invitation I mentioned earlier or even a choice between two cans of vegetables when one contains a hidden poison, the Lord will intervene and give us guidance. When a choice will make a real difference in our lives—obvious or not—and when we are living in tune with the Spirit and seeking his guidance, we can be sure we will receive the guidance we need to attain our goal. The Lord will not leave us unassisted when a choice is important to our eternal welfare.
Beefster wrote:
The point is these feelings weren’t inspired.
Could those feelings be inspired even though what you hoped would happen didn’t end up happening?
Beefster wrote:
I think one of the biggest learning experiences in this life is the fact that so much is uncertain, so we should be willing to try things we wouldn’t normally try and see what happens. I think that helps us to learn faith in the sense of being willing to do things without having to know much about their outcome while being confident that it will all work out for good in some way or another.Could the feelings you felt be a form of inspiration that served as a catalyst to get you to go on these journeys that you wouldn’t normally try so you could have learning experiences?
Yeah. Those things are all possibilities. I’m not going to hold my breath. Not sure I can really trust those feelings anymore. That’s all. I’m not saying inspiration never happens, and it’s not like they ended up badly in the end. I don’t want to have to make assumptions on those things anymore. I’m just going to try stuff outside my comfort zone and not worry if it was inspired or not. I’ll probably still act on those feelings from time to time; I just won’t assume they’re from God.
I have had a few experiences where I am confident calling them inspiration – one just this month. Of course, there is the possibility of confirmation bias, but the timing of the unnatural thought, our subsequent actions, and then a discussion with my son that completely was unexpected (literally no reason to expect it) puts the thought/feeling into the category of inspiration for me.
I wouldn’t say I have that sort of experience regularly, but they also aren’t so rare as to be astounding to me.
I don’t understand why my experiences are different than others’ – either more or less often than others. I have no clue. I just know I believe in inspiration, as a concept, because I have experienced what I deem to be inspiration.
I’m reminded of the one Jeffrey R Holland talk about the fork in the road. He and his son felt as if they should go right… which was quickly a dead end. Perhaps this was because God knew it would work out either way and felt no need to actually inspire them. It didn’t actually matter which way they went, so God said nothing and Elder Holland and his son filled in the blank, and it just so happened to match. Perhaps I overqualified the rarity of this kind of inspiration, though I have come to the understanding that it really doesn’t matter whether it’s inspired or not if it gets you to act. Most of the time, things will work out no matter what you do.
A great quote that’s made it into my bank recently is: Quote:To action only do you have a right, not to the results thereof.
Honestly, the quote will throw me off my game quite often. I love it, but it also frustrates me when I am set on an outcome happening. My current situation has left me with a confirmed job, but no actual start date. I’m recently got into my own apartment so it’s an incredibly inconvenient time for the process to be taking so long. Luckily, due to previous preparation, I’ve been able to get a part-time job in the meantime. I don’t know how long “in the meantime” will last. Years prior I would have been quite anxious about praying to God for exactly the right jobs to apply to and wondering if I had done something wrong or if there was something right I still needed to do. Even though those thoughts are still popping up, I don’t take them as seriously anymore. I’m doing what I can, how I can, when I can – in all aspects of the situation.
Is there some lesson for me to learn? Possibly. But I’m not nervously trying to figure it out. Dew distills over a number of hours, after all.
Also, I love that the quote places each of us squarely as individual agents of action.
Beefster wrote:
I think one of the biggest learning experiences in this life is the fact that so much is uncertain
That is a hard lesson. I recently heard a movie quote that said something to the effect that young people are bestowed with a certain amount of hubris. This gives them the audacity to charge into a risky and uncertain world with confidence.
DarkJedi wrote:
It’s a BYU devotional from when Elder Oaks was only Pres. Oaks, but I really appreciate it for what it really says – not all prayers are answered.
One of my favorite talks is tragedy or destiny by SWK.
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-spencer-w-kimball/chapter-2?lang=eng Quote:Answer, if you can. I cannot, for though I know God has a major role in our lives,
I do not knowhow much he causes to happen and how much he merely permits. When I first read it, I found it to be jarring. Here we had an apostle saying, “I do not know.” Now I am comforted in that admission.
Ultimately, I believe that feeling that God has confirmed your decision can be good (great even) especially in situations where a mutually exclusive decision must be made and might as well be committed to with full force.
OTOH, it can be a negative if the results of the choice end up being awful and the individual “stays the course” on the assurance of that inspiration long after they should have changed direction.
P.S. “If the choice is important for reasons unknown to us, such as the speaking invitation I mentioned earlier or even a choice between two cans of vegetables when one contains a hidden poison, the Lord will intervene and give us guidance.” Did Elder Oaks just say that God will reveal poison in our food if we but pray about it? Not the point he was trying to make I think – but there it is, in black and white.
Roy wrote:
“If the choice is important for reasons unknown to us, such as the speaking invitation I mentioned earlier or even a choice between two cans of vegetables when one contains a hidden poison, the Lord will intervene and give us guidance.” Did Elder Oaks just say that God will reveal poison in our food if we but pray about it? Not the point he was trying to make I think – but there it is, in black and white.
I almost want to test this, by giving Elder Oaks two cans of vegetables, telling him one is poisoned, and asking him to eat one of them. Would he eat it? I think not. With all respect to President Oaks, if it really worked like that, the GA’s wouldn’t need their entourage of body guards.
dande48 wrote:
Roy wrote:
“If the choice is important for reasons unknown to us, such as the speaking invitation I mentioned earlier or even a choice between two cans of vegetables when one contains a hidden poison, the Lord will intervene and give us guidance.” Did Elder Oaks just say that God will reveal poison in our food if we but pray about it? Not the point he was trying to make I think – but there it is, in black and white.
I almost want to test this, by giving Elder Oaks two cans of vegetables, telling him one is poisoned, and asking him to eat one of them. Would he eat it? I think not. With all respect to President Oaks, if it really worked like that, the GA’s wouldn’t need their entourage of body guards.
Good point. I’m not sure the Lord would intervene. That could be for a variety of reasons, one being that the Lord doesn’t intervene. Either way, when the ward tongue waggers found out about it they’d certainly ascribe it lack of faith, lack or worthiness, or any number of other lacks.
Old Timer wrote:
I have had a few experiences where I am confident calling them inspiration – one just this month.Of course, there is the possibility of confirmation bias, but the timing of the unnatural thought, our subsequent actions, and then a discussion with my son that completely was unexpected (literally no reason to expect it) puts the thought/feeling into the category of inspiration for me.
I wouldn’t say I have that sort of experience regularly, but they also aren’t so rare as to be astounding to me.
I don’t understand why my experiences are different than others’ – either more or less often than others. I have no clue. I just know I believe in inspiration, as a concept, because I have experienced what I deem to be inspiration.
I will admit that this also recently happened to me. I am generally skeptical of feelings or promptings as inspiration. However, while recently discussing a calling and a name put forward that made perfect logical sense (that is, it didn’t seem there was another good choice, which was specifically mentioned, and the person is perfectly capable) the name of another person who had been overlooked popped into my head. I hesitated to say anything and the leader perceived something was going on in my head and asked pretty much “Do you have an issue with this person?” I answered that no I didn’t but I was just wondering if this other person had been considered. Since this was a name nominated by someone else, the answer was that he didn’t know – but he felt we should move forward with the new person. Given the person’s circumstances this will undoubtedly be a positive thing in his life.
I can’t say that I receive any inspiration regularly, and quite frankly when callings like this come up I almost never feel anything – perhaps Elder Oaks’ equally good choices. Nevertheless, I can’t deny that I did feel something this time and I’m glad I spoke up.
This one confuses me. I have found greater happiness and a sense of control in my life when I dispensed with the idea that God was directing my thoughts and pulling strings in my life. That way lay too much disappointment and a sense of sucking air when I prayed for certain things to happen. So, I tend to use the watchmaker analogy where God sets up the rules and principles and laws that govern the universe and then we are subject to them. This leads to coincidental interactions. On the other hand, as the watchmaker, I believe he sometimes intervenes to influence events in our favor when he has a desire to do so. The problem for me is this scripture:
Quote:
21 And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.I have a kind of disdain when people get up in sacrament meeting and attribute to God the little daily blossoms or coincidences to God involved in the details of their lives. I am pleased this makes them happy, but I have this major skepticism that God is that involved in our daily lives. So, I guess his anger is kindled against me for not acknowledging that he has such involvement.
I can live with the idea that he is involved because he set up the constraints in our lives, the natural laws that govern us, but it seems a bit much when people ascribe God’s involvement to all the little stuff, and the coincidences that happen.
Why would he want us believing he’s responsible for all the little things that happen when it’s unlikely he’s pulling all those strings? Isn’t God about truth, and isn’t it true that he’s not involved in the nitty gritties all the time?
SilentDawning wrote:
Quote:
21 And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.
That’s a funny scripture. I imagine someone working out their salvation with fear and trembling before the lord.
Person: “I’m really worried about my status before god. It’s just that I struggle so much with keeping
allthe commandments. Oh, look at this scripture.” Scripture: “And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled…”
Person” “Phew, that takes some of the pressure off. Maybe this salvation thing
ispossible after all.” Scripture: “…save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.”
Person: “Welp, I’m right back where I started.”
Man doesn’t offend god… except when man does.
:thumbup: SilentDawning wrote:
And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.
Remember that the writers of scripture were also limited. If we were to take this scripture literally then we could imagine God saving his choicest offence and his strongest wrath for people that do not believe in him (or do not believe in him enough). That just does not strike me as the God I believe in. “You know what really ticks me off? When people do not walk around praising me all the time and doing exactly what I say!”
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