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SilentDawning wrote:
They aren’t your employer, and they should behave more gratefully for the time you put in, in my view.
This.
Happy to hear it worked out. I think if more members would be clear about resigning, releases would occur quicker and the climate might change from the feel of an employee to more a volunteer. I understand how difficult it can be for leaders to try to fill callings, and also the push to have a calling for everyone. It takes a great deal of time.. in my experience filling callings ate up the biggest portion of bishopric meetings. I remember hearing lots of people say how they’d never refuse a calling, so I was a bit surprised at how many people do when it was my turn to be the guy calling them. We learned to view any calling through the filter of the family involved and make sure the person being called understood they obviously had their agency and always knew more about themselves and their situation than we did, even though we prayed and tried our best to rely on inspiration. Still, “we feel strongly HF wants you in this Calling” carries an inordinate amount of weight and borders on ecclesiastical abuse, in my opinion. No one wants to disappoint the bishop and thus disappoint God
I once felt I needed to quit a stake calling so I sent an email to the SP telling him I was resigning and why. I gave two months to get them through the end of the year, which I felt was sufficient time to find a replacement and wouldn’t put undue burden on others to do my calling while they were looking. The SP didn’t try to talk me out of it. It was a smooth exit.
In contrast, I have family members who’ve asked to be released, given reasons why, had leaders try to explain to them why those weren’t good reasons, how much they were needed, and implored then to post again, pray more, and basically change their mind. That’s infuriating.
I spent the first 2.5 decades of my adult life frustrated that people would not do things. The whole world seemed like a giant Donkey that wouldn’t move no matter how hard I tried. And it would cause interpersonal conflict as I pushed them to do things they didn’t want to do. Then I learned about the importance of observation and analysis, and outright asking people what their passions are, as well as their current commitments. Then, when you ask them to do something that aligns with those passions, they tend to almost always say “yes” because it’s an expression of who they are, of who they would like to become.
One thing that really helped me was a personality trait theory at work we used called the StrengthsFinder 2.0. It is a personality test, and it tells you people’s strengths. I was trained in strengths consulting and have held dozens of sessions with people about how to use their strengths to be successful. I have also trained scores of people in strengths awareness training and presented at conferences on the subject.
I also noticed themes – hundreds of students had their strengths on a card in front of their seats in my classes over a few years. I noticed definite personality traits were dominant in students studying project management, accounting, and sales. It was striking. People who know the strengths of the people they are leading are in a much better position to delegate successfully than people who see members as warm bodies to plug holes.
Anyway, I learned to really get to know people before you ask them to do something. THEN ask them to do something that matches their strengths. They may not have the skills yet to do the thing you ask, but if what they must learn aligns with their personality, then the delegation success rate (acceptance of the assignment, and then actual performace) goes WAY up. I have also created entry barriers to serving, which sounds strange, but it weeds out the people who only want to appear to help without actually doing anything. Highly successful. You end up surrounded by people who show up with surprising and top of the line work. Very energizing. Our show rate at meetings was 85%, which was outstanding based on past statistics I kept…before we started recruiting smartly.
Another approach was to cast bread on the waters and see who picks it up. Let people self-select into various assignments. If you don’t have the resources or time to do a thorough assessment of people’s hopes, dreams, and passions, then letting them self-select into callings helped – but you also need to then do your own bit of questioning and assessment to see if they have assessed the situation properly themselves after they come forward. Don’t confuse willingness with competence. Sometimes it means offering them a different assignment, to which they then enthusiastically agree.
It’s one reason I will avoid church leadership positions like the plague in the near future. Because there is very little effort put into finding the right person for the calling, your helpers tend to be a crap shoot in terms of fit. The conscription model of service also squelches passion and makes it hard to see who really wants to serve and who is simply being a good (and freqeuntly, underperforming) soldier. And this leads to time wasted orienting non-performing members, and much leader frustration.
I currently recruit volunteers regularly in my non-profit. It is for projects only — no standing “callings” except on our board (Treasurer, Volunteer Resources recruiter, and a Program manager that orients project leaders and implements project management processes). These people find volunteers and hold them accountable to certain, time-honored project management principles (clearly defined project scope, a project schedule or SCRUM-based backlog of work).
Project members are automatically “released” when a project completes. And the test of whether I was a good leader, and managed the group processes well enough is whether they sign on for another project. That holds my feet to the fire, and makes me accountable. So far, the retention rate has been very, very good. We lost two people out of about 9 recently. One I didn’t think was a good fit and encouraged it, and the other one still helps a bit but cut back on her service. The others are going strong and have even brought new people with them.
Anyway, off my soap-box.
SD, this is very interesting. One thing you said was: Quote:Another approach was to cast bread on the waters and see who picks it up. Let people self-select into various assignments. If you don’t have the resources or time to do a thorough assessment of people’s hopes, dreams, and passions, then letting them self-select into callings helped – but you also need to then do your own bit of questioning and assessment to see if they have assessed the situation properly themselves after they come forward. Don’t confuse willingness with competence. Sometimes it means offering them a different assignment, to which they then enthusiastically agree.
Has anyone experienced a situation in the church where a Bishop (or others), for example, said to the congregation:
Quote:Our ward (or stake or RS) has the following positions that need to be filled in the coming months. Please review the list, pray about which calling would be a fit for you. When you receive your answer, contact the Executive Secretary, meet with me to discuss it further.
Most companies or organizations have a posting for open positions. Anyone who feels they have an interest & qualifications can apply.
Now that I think about it, members would feel like they were competing for positions instead of being “called”.
They may feel like the Bishop or Stake has favorites. More so than they usual do.
In theory, I am not opposed to that approach, MM. Hoever, in practice, along with the issues you mentioned, is the certainty that individual inspiration (even real revelation about what calling would be best for the individual) would conflict with organizational need in balancing so many positions. Sometimes, what is best (or second best or third best or not even all that good) for an individual isn’t good for the organization overall. My wife learned that clearly when she was the YW President and her prayerful consideration about open callings wasn’t implemented on more than one occasion. We had some long conversations about whybthat was okay, and she is as faithful and dedicated as it gets. Having to say to someone, “I believe your inspiration/revelation was correct for you, but I am not going to offer you that calling, because the ward needs you in this other position,” is a minefield no Bishop wants to create – since the takeaway for some members is guaranteed to be, “That Bishop is going against the will of the Lord.”
Reuben, I am so glad that your Bishop worked with you and is willing to release you. You are very blessed to have an understanding Bishop.
It is good that you are taking care of yourself and putting your family first.
Silently Dawning, My Bishop not releasing me had caused a lot of people to be up set with me. I am still in my leadership position according the ward and stake. Even through the Bishop told me that I was to released 2 months I was not even given a thank you.They seem to be forgetting that they are not my employer. They are mad that I asked to be released. I would never have asked to released if people were working together and getting a long. It is like no one cares as long as there is name by the callings. I find it hard to want to be a part of a church that treats members this way.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Donna, I always hurt when I hear of situations like yours. It simply ought not be. Leadership roulette is real, and I am convinced it is one of the biggest factors in many members’ struggles with church attendance. Feeling loved and appreciated are fundamental to being happy as humans, and being understood is not far behind.
Cnsl1 wrote:In contrast, I have family members who’ve asked to be released, given reasons why, had leaders try to explain to them why those weren’t good reasons, how much they were needed, and implored then to post again, pray more, and basically change their mind. That’s infuriating.
When my wife gets pregnant she is called as the president of an auxiliary organization. The third time we were hesitant because my wife gets post partum depression and just because we seem to be able to handle the additional burden now, when the baby comes it will be a different story. Our bishop promised us that if my wife would serve faithfully HF would bless our family. We accepted. Fast forward about 6 months…Our baby was stillborn, I had my FC, and our marriage was hanging from a thread.
I do not hold any ill will toward the bishop. Saying things like, “HF will bless you” is pretty standard stuff. However, I have since come to believe that the bishop had no right to speak for God in this matter.
People believing they speak for God is perhaps THE central issue in all of religion, regardless of affiliation. Old Timer wrote:People believing they speak for God is perhaps THE central issue in all of religion, regardless of affiliation.
I agree, Curt. That is why I am not especially angry at our bishop at the time. He did not know what was going to happen and certainly did not cause it. What he said is pretty tame and typical in LDS communication. Also we felt that we should make bishop aware of our concerns and leave the ultimate decision up to him – so in a way, we were almost asking him to convince us. He said what he needed to reassure us and fill a hole in local church administration.
Some could even make the case that HF
DIDbless us. We still breath, and our marriage survived, and I am still gainfully employed. Of course, in that overly ambiguous definition of blessings everyone is “blessed” all the time regardless of how good they may be. Suffice it to say that prior to the stillbirth and my FC, my bishop and I were operating on a certain set of assumptions. My wife and I had a rude awakening that was not anyone’s fault.
I do think that it is fair to say that a degree or portion of our shock and pain was at least partly because of how fully we believed in promises such as these that had been made throughout our LDS experience.
Minyan Man wrote:Most companies or organizations have a posting for open positions. Anyone who feels they have an interest & qualifications can apply. Now that I think about it, members would feel like they were competing for positions instead of being “called”. They may feel like the Bishop or Stake has favorites. More so than they usual do.
I chuckled when I read the part about competition. If I can respond to this — in my experience, the short list of people who want to contribute in a volunteer calling are minimal. Those who do, only a few make it through the screening process. Remember, it is ultimately up to the church to decide who they bring on…all I am doing is suggesting making being on the short list voluntary. Plus, the SP’s and BP’s have favorites anyway. There are many areas where you have to had proven ability or be in a certain family line to get any really significant positions….happens all the time anyway.
I am also saying that I think a better approach is to be a blend of both “invitation” and “voluntary participation”. By “invitation”, I mean simply asking people to accept callings, but without the bad feelings when people say “no”. While at the same time, keeping a list of people who have passions for certain kinds of callings. Go to the passion list first when you have an opening. Don’t make it so one-sided where the leaders go down a list and then come up with people they think might do a good job — consider the needs and wants of the members at the same time.
And also, our church is famous for conditioning the attitudes of members about “obeying leaders”, “serving where placed”, “never saying “no” to a calling, top down authority, and the list goes on and on. If there were any operational problems inherent in the methods I suggested, I’m sure the GA’s and local leaders could come up with lots of new attitude conditioners average members would quote left and right in meetings. And then people would then bear testimony about how wonderful that counsel is and how they were blessed when they obeyed it.
Donna wrote:Silently Dawning,
My Bishop not releasing me had caused a lot of people to be up set with me. I am still in my leadership position according the ward and stake. Even through the Bishop told me that I was to released 2 months I was not even given a thank you.They seem to be forgetting that they are not my employer. They are mad that I asked to be released. I would never have asked to released if people were working together and getting a long. It is like no one cares as long as there is name by the callings. I find it hard to want to be a part of a church that treats members this way.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Same thing happened to me. The leaders, in their slowness, don’t seem to get that you are still listed on the website as President so and so, that members still expect you to function in the calling, and if you’re like me, you feel an obligation to go full tilt until the release is effected over the pulpit.
It’s so wrong. And then to add everyone mad at you. I had a member of the SP who would run like a scared rabbit whenever he would see me. The HC didn’t care, claiming ignorance, and the BP had no control, as it was a stake calling. And then I heard a lot of negative things were said about me in meetings for years afterwards.
So, let’s cross-reference this to the thread on community — perhaps we can see the relationship between leader reactions to requests for releases, and the sense of community people seek? Can you really feel like you are part of a community when, in asking to be released, you become this outcast for a time, and even beyond?
That is a major reason why I now serve in the church ON MY OWN TERMS, and not on anyone else’s. In my last calling, I insisted on no formal call. The Bishop simply announced the teacher improvement course would run that day, and asked if everyone knew SD — asked me to stand up in the meeting. And of course, I wasn’t there yet (running a bit late), so he didn’t even get the near equivalent of a sustaining through that little technique.
So the time will come when someone — myself or my Bishop will bring this assignment I have to an end. If i don’t want to do it anymore, I walk into the Bishop’s office, tell him its over (or send an email), and I’m done. No admin to wait on from leaders who may or may not support me in my request. I am in the driver’s seat….
Silent Dawning I like your idea of no formal calling. What a smart idea that way are in control of your release if need be. I will remember that if ever get another calling. The Bishop is pretty upset with me for asking to be release. He told me I can’t have another calling for a year. I am pretty such that is not in the church hand book. They have now added my e-mail address on the leaders page. No one else in the organization e-mail was added. I did not give them permission to add my e-mail. I know I am dreaming but a
thank for all you do and we appreciate what a good job you have done would be appreciated.
I don’t understand why people spend so much time talking about things that are over in meeting. There are so many other positive this to do in life.
I am finding this situation very stressful.
Thank you for sharing you thoughts with us.
MM, Thanks for making me laugh. I can only imagine someone applying for my calling. I wonder if I should suggest it. LOL
Donna, that’s not policy, it’s retaliation. You should talk to your stake president ASAP.
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