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Hi All, I do believe in personal revelation but have sometimes gotten inspiration that is against church teachings. Not as bad as Nephi who was told to kill Laban, but other things in my life. I have had people tell me that God would never tell you anything against church teachings but I have definitely experienced that and when I followed the prompting it turned out for the good. What are your thoughts on this?
I think Joseph Smith did a wonderful job of addressing this issue. See TPJS pages 255-256. It’s entitled “happiness the design of existence” but that title was added later. It’s actually a letter to Nancy Rigdon.
Pretty insightful stuff IMHO.
He says such things as “That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.
There are millions of Mormons and personal revelation is, as a matter of necessity, going to differ from cookie-cutter general teachings from time-to-time.
I have no problem with it, as long as it doesn’t become the norm. I think church teachings generally are very good generalities that work for the general populace in general situations. Thus, I generally try to live by them – and I end up doing so a large percent of the time, generally speaking.
I think it is helpful to keep the attitude that we are all doing the best we can with what we’ve been given. That includes the church leaders. As we’ve discessed before, I think most church members are in stage three…and in that state, obedience is important; I find the phrase “fake it till you make it” applicable. But, particularly when in stage 4 or 5, there is absolutely nothing or nobody, IMHO, that has the right to force you to go against what you feel strongly is pure inspiration from God.
Bruce in Montana wrote:He says such things as “That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.
This is an example of “theocratic ethics” and something that I have come to find very disturbing since my disaffection. I find it frightening that someone can claim God told them something was right so they can perform acts that would normally be wrong (we find examples of this in Nephi with Laban, Old testament genocide, the catholic crusades, Muslim Jihad, JS and early phophets with polygamy, the church’s whitewashing (lying) about church history).
That said, I don’t think the church is the source of ultimate truth (although it is a good church and the leaders are trying) and so it is perfectly reasonable to obtain answerrs to prayer against church teachings. I think it is important to obey your personal answers to prayer, but we should be especially careful if that answer is against generally accepted societal norms (murder, stealing, lying, etc.) I think it is entirely too difficult to definitively distinguish between our own desires and personal revelation at times. I also think too many evil deads have been done in the name of Diety.
MisterCurie wrote:Bruce in Montana wrote:He says such things as “That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.
I think it is important to obey your personal answers to prayer, but we should be especially careful if that answer is against generally accepted societal norms (murder, stealing, lying, etc.) I think it is entirely too difficult to definitively distinguish between our own desires and personal revelation at times. I also think too many evil deads have been done in the name of Diety.
That is so important what you said as I think one of mankinds greatest weaknesses is to rationalize in order to do what we want. I guess we have to ask ourselves whether this is really the loving thing to do before we do it.
Thou shalt not kill, but Abraham was supposed to kill his son Isaac. There are exceptions, but we should be wary of them. I don’t care if an angel commanded me to do the same thing as Abraham–I wouldn’t do it.
That has to be one of the most paradoxical stories in all of scripture.
mormonheretic wrote:Thou shalt not kill, but Abraham was supposed to kill his son Isaac.
There are exceptions, but we should be wary of them. I don’t care if an angel commanded me to do the same thing as Abraham–I wouldn’t do it.
That has to be one of the most paradoxical stories in all of scripture.
Yep. Balance is the key.HiJolly
bridget_night wrote:Hi All,
I do believe in personal revelation but have sometimes gotten inspiration that is against church teachings. Not as bad as Nephi who was told to kill Laban, but other things in my life. I have had people tell me that God would never tell you anything against church teachings but I have definitely experienced that and when I followed the prompting it turned out for the good. What are your thoughts on this?
My approach (and yes, this happens to me also) is to quietly examine the issue, and wait for confirmation. If many events occur which confirm or at least support the heretical concept, I begin to accept it personally as ‘truth’. I am very careful whom I share it with, even if I am 100% sure my heretical belief is true.What I love
😈 is dropping occult quotes in Gospel Doctrine class. They like it, ’cause its the truth, but oh, my, if they only knew where it came from… Things like “As Above, So Below”… or, “Nature, unaided, always fails”. LoL.HiJolly
Well this has happened to me too. I think the key is following God and not going too far with things and to be very sure of what God is telling us and not telling us. If God told a person to get clear of the church for a time, that doesn’t necessarily mean the church is false. But a person could draw that conclusion. I think its easy to get confused when we get so stuck in the law or attached to the bible, for example, that we dont’ understand how personal revelation works inside the system.
bridget_night wrote:I do believe in personal revelation but have sometimes gotten inspiration that is against church teachings. Not as bad as Nephi who was told to kill Laban, but other things in my life. I have had people tell me that God would never tell you anything against church teachings but I have definitely experienced that and when I followed the prompting it turned out for the good. What are your thoughts on this?
Bridget, you have described the story of my life and of my disaffection with the Church.
For me, I ultimately take any personal revelation received to be more important than what I hear over the pulpit. I think that relationship with God – and understanding what he wants for each of us personally – is a spiritual growth that has to happen despite or in spite of any of the good teachings of the Church. I will agree with others, though, that its important for me personally not to see my own personal revelation as more than personal.
It reminds me of something Ray says frequently on here (forgive me, Ray, if I paraphrase), that he wouldn’t blame homosexuals for leaving the church over their sexual orientation. That is clearly a choice that the church would disagree with, but there is no reason for you or I to say that God would or wouldn’t. I think the same thing applies when we are talking about any such situation where what the church teaches and what God teaches us individually are at odds.
I guess I would also say that it also matters when we are talking about a Church law versus a law of the land. I don’t know that I would condone embezzlement, for example
I have been struggling with this issue too, which in big part has led me to the trouble I’m having with my testimony. I feel I need a divorce. I pray about it and have for 17 years, and I really believe divorce is what’s best for me. But everything in the church teachings tells me I shouldn’t divorce. I’m being selfish, I’m tearing my family apart, I’m going against the doctrine and breaking covenants. Maybe it’s because I want to be happy for once? My fear of wanting to adhere to church teachings has kept me married all this time, even though I feel my answer is divorce. Hi musiclady, No one but God and you can know the individual circumstances in your marriage, so I would go by what inspiration you feel is right for you. Two years ago, I almost got a divorce. Divorce is a very scary undertaking and has lots of ramifications, but sometimes is necessary. After praying about it I had a powerful dream that I believe was from God. He showed me what would happen to my kids, and my husband if I divorced. It showed that both my oldest son and daughter’s marriages would end in divorce because of my decision, and that my youngest gay son would never come back to believing in God and my husband would become an alcoholic. So, I stayed and we have worked many things out. Since then, my daughter has told me, “Mom, when you wrote me you were going to leave dad, all the blood drained out of my face, and I knew if you and dad could not make it after so many years, I could not make it. Over and over it was comfirmed to me that I made the right decision. I don’t think God intends us to be miserable for years and years in a marriage. My parents stayed together for the kids and were miserable for 45 years. My dad almost left my mom once and when he prayed about it he had a powerful dream where an angel came to him and told him he must not divorce my mom as it was not her fault that she was so messed up after the war. So, sometimes you do have to sacrifice, but other times the dream or spirit may tell you to leave. Follow, your gut feelings. The subconscious mind often tells your heart the right thing to do.
Take care, Bridget
With the Nephi/Laban story, you seem to be saying that the scriptures do not agree with what people are telling you. That’s an easy one for me. I go with the scriptures–every time. When I experience a situation like this, I also make sure to search my heart, and search my motives. I ask myself, Am I being deceived? Am I trying to justify some sin of mine? I pray to God that I will not be led astray, and if everything still looks right and feels right, I go ahead with it.
musiclady wrote:I have been struggling with this issue too, which in big part has led me to the trouble I’m having with my testimony. I feel I need a divorce. I pray about it and have for 17 years, and I really believe divorce is what’s best for me. But everything in the church teachings tells me I shouldn’t divorce. I’m being selfish, I’m tearing my family apart, I’m going against the doctrine and breaking covenants. Maybe it’s because I want to be happy for once? My fear of wanting to adhere to church teachings has kept me married all this time, even though I feel my answer is divorce.
Hi Musiclady.
I guess maybe I want to challenge the assumption that divorce = sin. I actually don’t think the church is completely against divorce. No bishops aren’t going to tell a person to divorce unless there is extreme abuse or some other such extreme. But we live in an imperfect world. Kids get married too fast sometimes. Maybe its ok to start over. It really does have to be between you and the Lord. He can see the future. He can see your needs and your losses.
I prayed about divorce too. And much of my early struggles were because I was reading God’s mind and assuming I new that the thought of divorce was obviously wrong. I learned differently as I tried to move forward in self trust as I combined that to my faith in God. I got a variety of answers that I didn’t expect. Most of them, I was surprised to hear, were throwing questions back at me about what I wanted to do or how I wanted to solve the problems. The answers were not dictations. Rather I felt God working together with me and the scriptures and the words of the prophets on the subject. He gave me encouragement and at one point I felt he would support whatever decision I made. And I was sealed in the temple. It takes courage to combine agency and faith together. But I really really believe God supports and guides us as we move forward in the driver seats of our lives.
I am not saying that you should divorce or not. What I am saying is that perhaps there are more answers available to you besides
yesor no.
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