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I attended Church today, and at one point, my wife opened the chapel door after the meeting ended and people were leaving, to look for someone. I ended up holding the door, and stood there for a second after she left as people were still flowing through it. A woman I don’t know walks up to me and says challengingly …”You’re standing there holding the door for people???????”.
My initial impression was “who is this person that I don’t know walking up to me and questioning the social acceptability of a simple act like this???”.
I replied “I was looking for someone but they aren’t in the chapel, and didn’t want to let the door swing back on them. Also, the tips have been terrible so I think I’ll abandon the idea”. And then I walked away. She didn’t laugh or respond, but sort of haughtily walked away herself.
I know this is a small thing, but what is your take on this kind of behavior from other people? Over the years I’ve grown tired of this kind of behavior over small deviations from practice in our church — and in just about any other context. Its one reason I never liked the temple ceremony because it’s a magnet for small corrections, and being a veil worker took it over the top. I never went back to that calling after the first try for this very reason.
What is your take on these kinds of things that happen in every day meetinghouses? Like the one I described today?
SilentDawning wrote:I know this is a small thing, but what is your take on this kind of behavior from other people?
My initial reaction is that this person was either didn’t express her intent well or is a tactless jerk.
On a more macro level I believe that a serious weakness of the church is our difficulty with acceptance. There are so many “shoulds” and “should nots” that it seems only natural to look around to see who is not doing as they should. I imagine a young woman that might wear sleeveless dresses to church, with a semi-visible tattoo, and two pairs of earrings. I believe that her reception by too many members in the church would be coldly influenced by these factors (even though none of them are related to sin per se).
I have heard that, as humans, acceptance is our greatest desire – rejection our greatest fear.
I believe that acceptance in the context of the LDS church is too often based on meeting the many cultural markers of “should” and “should nots.”
OK, I’m a little lost here, maybe it’s an eastern Mormon thing but it seems OK no matter who holds the door here. Is there some reason you shouldn’t have been holding the door? DarkJedi wrote:OK, I’m a little lost here, maybe it’s an eastern Mormon thing but it seems OK no matter who holds the door here. Is there some reason you shouldn’t have been holding the door?
I can’t think of a single reason why I shouldn’t be standing there holding a door. I like Roy’s interpretation – that the person lacks social skills.
Incredibly weird behavior on her part. I know exactly what you mean about the ticky tack minor corrections in the temple. We did a session several years ago in Atlanta. When I was putting my rented clothes back, they wanted the sash pinned together to turn it in; I had never seen this done in any other temple before, but I was definitely lectured hard by the female temple worker in the changing room. I mentioned it to my mom later (she and my dad worked in the temple), and my mom said, “Obviously. You have to pin the sash. You mean you didn’t know to pin the sash??” People are crazypants for their weird little rules, and particularly in western culture, we love little rules. Really bemusing. Holding a door where I’m from is basic courtesy. I love your witty reply 
I liked your reply! Mine would have been similar, only more directed at the offender. Would have been something similar to: Oh, Sorry, do you want me to close the door on you?
But then again, probably wouldn’t catch me holding the door for very long anyway. I would have caught the next guy’s eye, then glanced at the door, then back and let the door go. This is the universal sign of “I’m letting go, so do something about it”.
SilentDawning wrote:What is your take on these kinds of things that happen in every day meetinghouses? Like the one I described today?
Unfortunately these kinds of things are happening every day in meetinghouses, and workplaces, and homes….. Some people are obsessive and critical and lack social skills. (I guess I know because sometimes I’m one of them.) I never thought of it before, but I can see that the temple can really stoke this behavior.
Nice of you to hold the door, I say!
What is my take? People are people, and some people have weird issues. There are some things that require ignoring them.
That’s pretty much it, honestly.
I suppose I raise this because in my private thoughts, I’m starting to grow a bit defiant of the world in this respect. As an introvert of 30 years, I tend to be fairly quiet unless an objective requires outgoingness. I am a bit weary of these kinds of comments from people — like the lady who questioned my courtesy of holding the door open. I believe, rightly or wrongly, a combination of my physical appearance (aspects I can’t change), and my quiet nature, I become a magnet for these kinds of [excuse me] stupid comments.
I was discussing this with my daughter, who is also an introvert. I mentioned some of the things I have been wanting to say to people that make silly comments like these. I explained what I truly think, and would like to say, and she replied “that’s snarky — say that to a boss and I think you would get fired”.
So, here are some of the things I would like say to people who make strange comments like this — as both self-assertion and making them think. But they are too harsh — I would never say them. Suggestions on how to say them nicely, through implication, or in ways that get the point across without destroying the relationship entirely would be helpful….I will try the first one myself and perhaps anyone who is interested might provide a rephrasing of others.
To the lady who questioned holding the door open:
“I think it lacks social skills to walk up to someone you don’t know, question their courteous public behavior, and then walk away arrogantly after they respond. You might want to look at this and make adjustments– as your behavior is decidedly un-Chrislike”.
Reworded:
“I’m really puzzled why you you make a comment like that to someone who is clearly being courteous. Can you explain what was running through your mind at the time?”
To my new boss last week. Had met me once during an interview (myself and other reportees interviewed her). She had been in her position 4 days and I had been at the campus teaching on only 1 of those days, out in classrooms and public study areas with students. In a room full of faculty, she cries out after I walk in:
“Oh, so YOU’RE SD, the other day I wondered [put on a really loud voice at this point] “WHO IS THIS GUY?????????” because I never see you at your office. I always see [name co-worker], but I never see you — do you work here????”
Would like to say (have thought, but not shared):
“I find it odd that you and are are about to embark on an important work relationship, and you think it’s going to help by openly branding me as strange because you haven’t seen me in my office — particularly when the reason I’m not around is because I’m out where the students are located. Can you explain what you hoped to accomplish with that apparently gauche, embarrassing and tactless comment????”
Or
“One thing rI think everyone has a right to expect is at least a basic literacy in relationships from their co-workers. When you call out people you don’t know in front of groups of co-workers like that, it makes me question if you have this literacy. You might want to start reflecting on how to express yourself using more genteel statements — statements that are more fitting for people in management positions like yourself”.
Reworded:
“When you share negative perceptions of your subordinates in front of others, and use slang such as ‘WHO IS THIS GUY’, I’m not sure it creates the kind of positive relationships the average manager would to have with the people they are leading…can you help understand why you chose that forum, and that language to make your point??”
SilentDawning wrote:
“When you share negative perceptions of your subordinates in front of others, and use slang such as ‘WHO IS THIS GUY’, I’m not sure it creates the kind of positive relationships the average manager would to have with the people they are leading…can you help understand why you chose that forum, and that language to make your point??”Or, something short and direct
🙂 : “That kind of comment makes me wonder about whoyouare.” Now, I know that might not go down well with one’s boss. But it’s not like you have a history of insubordination with her….and any type of defiant response is the last straw.
The other option is to speak privately with the person and say,
“I need you to know that public questioning of my work ethic didn’t feel too positive for me. Is there an issue we need to talk about privately?”And if you are are really brave, you could make a reference to “hostile work place,” which might make her think twice again about trying to be funny or whatever. Quote:Blessed are the meek.
Quote:Turn the other cheek (especially when it didn’t get slapped all that hard in the first place).
Quote:Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my (obnoxious sisters), ye have done it unto me.
Also, I love your daughter.
:thumbup: My boss always uses ❗ Exclamation❗ in emails. For the first six months or so I read all of these emails as angry, exasperated, or emphatic. Now I realize that he just doesn’t use any other punctuation. Unfortunately, since he always uses this it becomes really difficult to distinguish the urgent emails from the every day ones. So I still end up treating them all as urgent!!!!I once asked a coworker if this was just me or if he does this with everyone and I confirmed that it was everyone.
I sometimes complain to my wife.
I will never mention it to my boss.
:silent: Old-Timer wrote:Quote:Blessed are the meek.
Quote:Turn the other cheek (especially when it didn’t get slapped all that hard in the first place).
Quote:Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my (obnoxious sisters), ye have done it unto me.
Also, I love your daughter.
:thumbup: I like the advice…although I am learning that part of my blockages in life are caused precisely by following the advice above.
People perceive me as meek and therefore, I do not receive opportunities. Bruce R McConkie indicated the he thought the turning of the cheek was people in full time missionary service….so I don’t see it as appropriate in all situations.
Also, I was watching shark tank this week, and one of the millionaires said something that was supportive and kind to one of the entrepreneurs who pitched their idea to him. He said “I’m going to make a comment, don’t perceive my kindness for weakness”.
I’m not convinced that meekness is what I need to advance my own personal challenges to the next level. Meekness and weakness are easily confused and assertiveness is a massive strength — and quite appropriate — even essential for survival — in may situations.
Different situations call for different responses – and you were talking about woman at church saying something stupid. That is very different than career issues – even though true meekness (not silent, submissive weakness – which are two very different things) has never caused me any lost opportunities. It’s easy to confuse the two and think we are being meek when we really are just being silent and submissive. In those cases, it’s not the fault of the observer; it’s our misunderstanding that is the issue. Frankly, true meekness has helped every time I’ve been able to be truly meek. If you haven’t read them, I wrote a series of posts a few years ago on my personal blog about meekness – breaking it down to root meaning and talking about various aspects of it. If you are interested, go to my blog and click on the “Meekness” tab / label at the bottom of the right-side lists.
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