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In Priesthood today in class discussion, my HT (he is the teacher in Priesthood as well) asked me boldly if I knew the gospel was true? I said I have faith that it is. He had an odd look on his face and followed up… “yeah, but you know the gospel is true? right?” I said “I have faith” – it was odd but we moved on. Then tonight at his home (we go to his home to be home taught as it is easier on both of us) he taught us that resurrected beings will be Caucasian, that blacks were cursed, and that they had the curse of Cain and Ham.
Here was my email response to him later in the evening
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JOHN SMITH (name changed), First let me reiterate that I appreciate you as our home teacher and am grateful for your diligence.
You asked for constructive criticism and so I offer it here hoping you hear and read this in the spirit it is given. You and others learned a very different Mormonism than I hold to be true. Just today you spoke about those of color being less valiant in the pre-mortal life and the curse of ham and cain. To be honest such teachings I deem false and frankly they are to me offensive. I simply do not hold those old teachings to be true and I don’t think the Church does any longer as well.
I fully realize that Elder McConkie, Mark E. Peterson, and Joseph Fielding Smith and others taught such things at one time or another. I am also aware that George Albert Smith and the First Presidency in the 1940’s declared officially that blacks being less valiant and inter-racial marriage as sin was “Doctrinal”
I simply do not believe it and as I said I don’t think the Church does any more either.
Please if you do anything, take the time to read this article on the Church’s site –
https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood In this article the Church acknowledges that it has such teachings in the past but also points to them being racist and incorrect and based on false assumptions.
Please note the third to last paragraph
Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form
What you and others were taught was the Doctrine of the 1960’s and 70’s are the disavowed theories of today.
My Mormonism, while it does hold the Book of Mormon as sacred Scripture, Joseph Smith as a prophet of this dispensation, The Church as having Priesthood and keys and saving ordinances, likely would differ greatly from you after the basics.
For example These are some of the views I have and which I teach my family
– I do not feel bound to a young 6,000 year old earth.
– I do not feel bound to be for or against evolution (Though I personally lean towards believing and accepting that God used Evolution)
– I believe many aspects of the creation and the fall to be purely figurative
– I am comfortable with Noah having been involved in a local flood and not a global flood
– I don’t believe Jesus was born on April 6th nor do I think it is Doctrine.
– I don’t believe our church has all truth or all keys.
– I don’t believe other churches are bad (I actually think they play a crucial role in God’s plan and he is using them to accomplish his work)
– I don’t believe every word from a prophets mouth (But I do believe every word when they are speaking as a prophet)
– I don’t believe in blind obedience (unquestioning obedience)
I think the struggle is that Many LDS from previous generations were taught Mormonism a certain way and it was assumed the Church had a good answer for every question. For me personally I find that many questions simply do not have good answers and I in turn act in faith. Which brings me to a second issue. You asked me twice today in Priesthood if I “Knew” the gospel was true. I don’t “know”. I used to think I did, but the older I get the more I realize the difference between faith and knowledge. There are things I know. But some things I simply hope, believe, or have faith in. For me those three words (hope, belief, faith) are different from knowledge. I don’t know the gospel is true, but I do have faith that it is true and I act, serve, attend, sacrifice, and live based on that faith. Have I had spiritual experiences?…. yep Has the gospel borne fruit in my life? … yep. But I rarely ever use the word know when bearing testimony matters of faith as my faith is way more complex than that, and to simply say I “know” doesn’t quite get at the heart of my testimony for me.
I hope this helps and I hope you will feel welcome to discuss any of this. I am an open book. you may not know this about me but I operate a popular LDS podcast that explores these issues and works to help others with doubts and struggles. it is at
http://Mormondiscussion.podbean.com (site will be changing in a month or so.)It may help to read my list of what I believe to be False assumptions and the support I give for each
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/p/false-assumptions/ Please feel free to respond and I truly hope to correspond further with you on these issues. Again thank you for being a faithful and diligent Home Teacher. Also know you are welcome to disagree with any of the above but this is the gospel framework I teach my family and so it would be most beneficial to us to build on those basics I mentioned earlier.
Your friend in Christ
Bill Reel
That is the approach need to take whenever we hear stuff like that: Direct but loving and backed by so many things that have been said for over 30 years. Thanks for tackling it head-on – firmly but with love.
I think it’s good – as Ray said, tackling it head on in a non-confrontational way is usually best. I might have thrown in (because I tend to do this) that if you listen to the GAS, especially to the Q15 (I’d put it more formally, of course) they almost never use the word “know” in that context. I realize, of course, that in Mormon vernacular the word has a slightly different connotation, but it’s one of my pet peeves. I too believe things (and believe in things), hope things, and have faith in things – if I actually had knowledge I would not need faith, hope, or belief. But “We believe the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are: First, faithin the Lord Jesus Christ….” and I believe I am expected to have faith – if I had seen Jesus I would no longer have faith, for knowledge would negate that faith. It actually saddens me that people in the church can still hold the belief the those of African descent are somehow less in the sight of God than Caucasians.
Keep us posted on what happens, if you don’t mind. Maybe next you can introduce him the to the translation of the Book of Mormon essay.
I thought about the translation essay, but we have to take baby steps. If he is not open to an “open conversation” I would likely never do that. I try to allow others their views unless it infringes on being allowed to have mine or is offensive Yeah, issues of race are one area where I simply won’t keep quiet – and where I tend to be much more blunt than other topics. I believe deeply that we simply MUST eradicate those stupid justifications, even if we can’t say openly what the new explanation says openly. In other words, I can’t force someone to see what I see – but I sure can put my foot down and say, “Not on my watch!” when it comes to repeating the justifications.
agreed Ray! I am pretty well respected in my ward and am seen as one of if not the most informed and aware. That said, I can usually get away with stamping out misnomers. I find the most resistance in the “old boys club” DBMormon wrote:agreed Ray! I am pretty well respected in my ward and am seen as one of if not the most informed and aware. That said, I can usually get away with stamping out misnomers. I find the most resistance in the “old boys club”
Somehow in HPG today we got into a discussion about age. Turns out I am the youngest guy in there. That’s been true for 20 years now….
DBMormon wrote:I thought about the translation essay, but we have to take baby steps. If he is not open to an “open conversation” I would likely never do that. I try to allow others their views unless it infringes on being allowed to have mine or is offensive
Old-Timer wrote:Yeah, issues of race are one area where I simply won’t keep quiet – and where I tend to be much more blunt than other topics. I believe deeply that we simply MUST eradicate those stupid justifications, even if we can’t say openly what the new explanation says openly.
In other words, I can’t force someone to see what I see – but I sure can put my foot down and say, “Not on my watch!” when it comes to repeating the justifications.
My two cents similar to both of you. I don’t really care if the person next to me believes that Noah literally saved two of every kind of animal, including over 200 species of primates, in an ark. I don’t think it is my place, nor do I think it is important, to ‘enlighten’ them about that. But any offensive discussion regarding race, gender, or sexual preference… that’s stuff I will not abide. You were right to bring it up and I look forward to hearing where it goes from here.Fortunately, where I am, I rarely hear anything that I categorize as offensive.
DB – I really appreciate you posting your entire experience here, beyond a well worded email and response, you taught me technique for more civil discourse. Your wisdom to wait and write an email when you got home is a lesson to me. I am a reactor and that causes problems – then nobody makes a point just a lot of feelings get hurt. Thanks for modeling a response for me. Thank you for sharing. In your response I would expect nothing less, my friend. I have a friend who had an equivalent experience when another member told her that she was less valiant because she was a convert and not BIC! She actually told her that no matter how quickly she progressed in the gospel, she would never “catch up” spiritually with members who grew up in the church. My friend called me in tears and was considering giving up because “what was the point?” I gave her the truth in no uncertain terms and told her exactly what to say to that sister (whose husband was the bishop, BTW.) It’s unfounded/offensive ideas like these that hang around and won’t seem to die that make it hard to Stay LDS sometimes. Life is full of enough trial and heartache. Why go around creating more? Sometimes I just want to stand up in SS and say, “Ok, this is how it really is People…!”
(end of rant)
BTW DB, excellent response. Much more effective than I probably would have been. DB, thank you for your well thought out & measured response. My 1st reaction would be to go for the “jugular”.
Good answers, DBMormon. I like how you dealt with it head on. We have more church writings to back up these refutations than in the past, which is great as well. The thing that struck me the most about your explanation is how this HT is probably someone who really wants to do good in the eyes of God and people he believes are divinely appointed. Yet, in spite of this, he’s emerged with some very racist attitudes that have crept into his belief system — as a result of his likely desire to be “good at heart”.
This tendency for destructive attitudes to creep into our well-meaning belief systems is something we have to be on-guard about all the time at church. And it means maintaining an attitude of critical thinking about everything we hear at church.
These kinds of destructive attitudes tend to emerge when we put our brains on the shelf.
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