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SamBee wrote:
I also have mixed feelings about the “obey”, “sustain” etc line put out all the time. A completely unquestioning culture comes with problems of its own – I suspect it may enable abuse and corruption in some quarters, plus a lack of personal initiative.
Yeah… Its amazing how much more I pick up on the message of “obey and follow your leaders”, it really is a constant message taught all three hours of church. I am soooo sensitive to it now.
Quote:I find church government very complicated… but the gospel lessons, please don’t simplify them! They’re already a bit too simplified already!
I think simple lessons are the fault of the teachers. If teachers would spend time pondering what they believe and why and then talk about that in lessons then they would not be so simple. I think it’s hard for many to be so personal in a public setting but I think it is what makes church good.
cwald – maybe Kirk needs to be reminded that ALL of church is optional. We just don’t say it is. 
nightwalden wrote:Quote:I find church government very complicated… but the gospel lessons, please don’t simplify them! They’re already a bit too simplified already!
I think simple lessons are the fault of the teachers. If teachers would spend time pondering what they believe and why and then talk about that in lessons then they would not be so simple. I think it’s hard for many to be so personal in a public setting but I think it is what makes church good.
It’s not just that, it’s the material. The current
Gospel Principleshas a disclaimer at the front telling you to follow the texts, and not introduce your own stuff, but if you’re going to, “make sure it’s from Ensign” (something like that). I suppose this is to cover themselves against people who might introduce extreme or ill thought out notions into the church, but it also hinders variety and interest. SamBee is right, although as I’ve said before, you can correlate the materials, and you can even correlate the teachers, but you can’t correlate the students! I agree that the ward & stake business needs to be simplified…especially the mock voting part. Once, my son (when he was young) watched everyone raise their right hand to sustain & wanted to be part of the action, but was a little too late & as they asked, “Are there any opposed?” He stood up on the bench & raised his hand. But it wasn’t noticed, as I doubt it would be if anyone else would have opposed. I also think that it would be great to forget teaching about church history (“HIS STORY”) – & teach Proverbs, the Beattitudes, & other basic teachings of Jesus Christ. And maybe throw in some social etiquette (nothing fancy, but saying hi to someone when they say hi to you, not leaving people out, etc.).
Featherina wrote:I also think that it would be great to forget teaching about church history (“HIS STORY”) – & teach Proverbs, the Beattitudes, & other basic teachings of Jesus Christ.
I like that. I’m going to suggest it at the next meeting. I’m in a small branch, sometimes we break away from the United States Correlation Committee standards. Who knows?
Perhaps it’s just me, but it seems like Proverbs and the Beatitudes are often the lessons that the SS teach skips to make sure we have time to cover the “important stuff” at the end of the manual
This post got me thinking a little bit.. What do I really need right now from the Church, to enhance my overall Spirituality? The only thing that kept coming to mind was on the side of a “Comparing Christianity” course, or something of the like. Where all who attend are able to understand other denominations of Christianity, their beliefs and how in fact, many are quite similar. A way to find connections with everyone… we can all learn from looking outside the box sometimes.. I’m sorry, I can’t help myself
Quote:Then more programs or ideas are implemented, and then more, then more. He said, pretty soon, the wagon gets so full of “good” things, that it is too heavy to pull any longer, and stops the family from progressing.
I love how everything is framed as “good” despite how ridiculous it may have been. Even the wagon being too heavy and slowing progression isn’t framed as “bad,” it’s just too full of “good” things, duh.🙄 🙄 But in all seriousness, I’m very torn on this issue. On the one hand, like most of you have expressed, I would rather simplify life, and get rid of stuff that doesn’t work. On the other hand, this usually seems to come at a cost of simplifying lessons, theology, and boils down to a “getting back to basics” approach. I think we have to strike a balance. I do feel like modern-day Mormonism has lost much of the cosmology and theology that made it really great (God was once a man for instance). I don’t really like to see that go away, even if it did create problems. Perhaps if it were possible to enrich our theology, but still simplify…
cwald wrote:Featherina wrote:I also think that it would be great to forget teaching about church history (“HIS STORY”) – & teach Proverbs, the Beattitudes, & other basic teachings of Jesus Christ.
I like that. I’m going to suggest it at the next meeting. I’m in a small branch, sometimes we break away from the United States Correlation Committee standards. Who knows?Perhaps it’s just me, but it seems like Proverbs and the Beatitudes are often the lessons that the SS teach skips to make sure we have time to cover the “important stuff” at the end of the manual
Cwald – thanks.Are there really “United States Correlation Commitee standards”? Just the name sounds complicated!
Yeah, on the rare occasion when Jesus’ teachings are focused on, they’re usually the best discussions/meetings!
Pessingforward –
A class like that would be great! It would help people realize that Mormons aren’t really the only good people, that we have much in common – as people, & there are in fact truths (perspectives) to be had from other faiths. I took a similar class at BYU-ID – before they discontinued it, as a religion elective. Actually, I kept the book (a compilation of many different faiths’ beliefs) & have been reading it occasionally.
One thing I really liked that they had in the 7th Day Adventist church was called “Love Circles”. It was a group that met once a week to share their trials and pray for each other. It helped me so much to hear others pray for my wayward children and do it was such sincerity and be so specific in prayer. So many times in home teaching or visiting teaching they ask if there is anything we can do for you and most people will say nothing. I always asked if there was something I could pray for them about. Pray seems so ritualistic and just rattled off in the lds church like it does not really do much. But, I have loved hearing people who get really sincere in their prayers and talk to God like they are talking to another person. I also like it when people are asked to greet each other in other churches and get to know each other more before the service starts. The gospel in action means more to me that running the church like a corporation. Bridget – that’s awesome! I love the idea of a love circle & vocally praying for each other so specifically! I’m going to start asking that when I visit teach. Thanks for the good ideas. Quote:I also like it when people are asked to greet each other in other churches and get to know each other more before the service starts.
Serious question, bridget:
Don’t you think that’s a pretty good description of the LDS Church?
Featherstone, Glad you liked the idea of love circles. Ray, I have moved many times now in my life and having been new so often, I found very few ever came up and asked who I was. I am an outgoing person and self-motivated so I usually introduce myself and meet other new people. Yes, Mormons mingle, before and after Sacrament meeting to those they know already, but they really do not reach out to newcomers enough. bridget_night wrote:Yes, Mormons mingle, before and after Sacrament meeting to those they know already, but they really do not reach out to newcomers enough.
I agree, and of course this varies wildly from one ward to the next, but it would be nice to feel in general members aren’t rushing to their meeting, or rushing to get their lesson prepared for the next hour, or passing around sign up clipboards for this cause or that cause…and could actually be relaxed and look around at who is new and should be welcomed.I notice this in my job…when one executive gets very intense with policies and procedures to “tighten up the ship” to correct some behaviors and get things going…and employees get stifled with creativity in their jobs. Then the successor executive changes the focus more on accountability and responsibility, and the simplified administrative pressure allows more focus to work in SMART ways.
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