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Forgotten_Charity wrote:
Accept people for who they are, not what you want them to or like them to be.
Thomas S Monson defined charity in this way. I believe that God is the author of perfect charity so much so that the scriptures say “God is Love.” That certainly puts a new perspective on how our relationship to God is often presented. What exactly might he want from us/for us?
There are now some elements of church participation that hold no interest for me. Some others seem to feel that I should be mortified at the prospect of disappointing God. I feel accepted by my God and nothing anyone can say can convince me otherwise. As an interesting sidenote: why would people even want to convince me of my unacceptability before God? Just because my path to fulfillment doesn’t look quite like theirs?
:crazy: Apathy about religion in general, and constant study of various scientific concepts and discoveries. 1 – Bypassing the middle man and putting personal revelation ahead of Gen Conf messages or others’ views on doctrine. 2 – Reading books that explain human behavior and sociology to see the basis for values, beliefs, and so on.
3 – Having like-minded friends to talk to about things I’m thinking about.
4 – Candy Crush when a lesson at church is just so so awful that my only other alternative is leaving the room.
5 – Finding common ground through common sense.
6 – Letting go of the awe for authority.
7 – Making friendships in the ward, even if we aren’t like-minded. Inviting people over for dinner on Sundays.
8 – Participating in the Bloggernacle.
9 – Helping others through their own faith crises which reminds me why I stay.
Forgotten_Charity wrote:Accept people for who they are, not what you want them to or like them to be.
Roy wrote:Thomas S Monson defined charity in this way.
Do you happen to have that quote? I’d really like to start sharing it on fb. I did a quick search and came up with:
Quote:When we treat people merely as they are, they will remain as they are. When we treat them as if they were what they should be, they will become what they should be.
-Pathways To Perfection: Discourses of Thomas S. Monson
I found the quote devoid of context but I think I know what he was really getting at. At the same time I can see how that quote can be interpreted as being the opposite to F_C’s quote. The quote I found really doesn’t work for the situations where I’d like to share it.
nibbler wrote:To navigate my FC I had to learn to deconstruct things looking for the
good. I once heard someone say that the relationship we have with a person we don’t get along with is the thing that is keeping us out of the celestial kingdom. When looking for the good in life I had to go to that worst enemy to discover the good, at the time that “enemy” had been the church which I has spent all that time deconstructing. I had to get to a place where I could see the good again in order to let go of some of that bitterness.
This.Orson wrote:I have tried to become more selfless – in the form of allowing members at church to express their ideas that I disagree with without exposing my desire to have my point of view validated. In other words I give the validation to them, willingly without resentment.
Curtis wrote:“A true warrior can walk his own path without needing to scorn the paths that others walk.” (my recollection of a Native American quote I heard once)
And this.One strategy I have been using lately is to set goals for myself. My goal the past two weeks was to make a comment in class, any comment that was positive. I’ve been disengaged for so long, skipping class for years now, that I felt it’s time to start engaging again. This goal is one little baby step in that direction. The two weeks before that, my goal was to attend priesthood meeting with no other expectations.
convert1992 wrote:My parents were from the Far East, and Eastern religions are by nature non-dogmatic (that is, if A is true it does not preclude the opposite of A). So when I found out that the evidence against the BOM is damning, I didn’t take that to mean that the Church is necessarily a complete fraud (or a fraud at all) and therefore I have to leave. On the flip side of that, missionaries who serve in the Far East know how frustrating it is to have an investigator conclude the Church is true but not agree that they have to be baptized.
When I talk to atheists I often see this same Western Christian dogmatism in their language, and I am put off by it. Freethinkers and skeptics should search themselves for ingrained habits of dogmatic thinking. It helps so much to throw out the “it’s all true or it’s not true at all” dichotomy. And that is how I stayed LDS.
This is good. I’ve been reading a lot of depth psychology and being reminded of the importance of myth, symbol and ritual for the human psyche, the fragility of the ego in relation to the unconscious . . . I might have already written on here a few years ago that Carl Jung has helped me keep my testimony.
A big thing for me has been learning to think mythically: letting go of an insistence on the literal factuality of scripture stories like the creation, flood, tower of Babel etc. has helped me to view them with a lot more respect and appreciation for what they really teach. Myths can be true and nourishing in a way that has nothing to do with fact. In a recent SS lesson the instructor did mention that the story of Adam and Eve could be seen as symbolic to our own lives, and I wanted to call out: of course! Heck, in the Temple we’re told that flat out. Their story is presented plainly as a myth there, and I often wonder how fully people let themselves face up to that. I didn’t make any comment in that lesson – I’ve taken a sort of vow of silence in SS and EQ, though sometimes I’ll let a comment slip in EQ. Keeping my mouth shut helps me too, as does substitute teaching in Primary. Sitting through Sharing Time isn’t my favorite thing, but when I can get in a room with a bunch of children I have a great time.
If I had the gumption I’d look up the Jung passage I read about the necessity for religious dogmas to be scientifically ridiculous but I’m feeling lazy right now. But that was its main gist: doctrines like the creation – or the resurrection – aren’t supposed to make scientific sense; they have a different purpose. I dare say that making the transition to a fuller way of thinking in terms of myth would help a lot of members of the Church feel more comfortable living in this world, and make them less scared to death of bringing their intellect to church.
R&Bs. I like that. I agree with seeing things symbolically keeping me active as well. Hawkgirl suggested “The Power of Myth” by Joseph Campbell. I have been listening to it on Audible and it is incredibly helpful. I can’t wait to read Carl Jung next. Excellent thoughts, r&b. I was in a discussion recently about the temple, and someone said:
Quote:If you think about the temple ceremonies logically . . . (in context, with the clear implication that what the person meant was “literally” instead of “logically”)
My response was:
Quote:I’m glad I’m not required to think about anything in the temple logically (meaning literally, as the person meant it). That would be so limiting.
Curtis wrote:
I was in a discussion recently about the temple, and someone said:Quote:If you think about the temple ceremonies logically . . . (in context, with the clear implication that what the person meant was “literally” instead of “logically”)
My response was:
Quote:I’m glad I’m not required to think about anything in the temple logically (meaning literally, as the person meant it). That would be so limiting.
I took everything literally before my FT. I didn’t know we weren’t “suppose” to. In having discussions with my husband I realize that he is way more “chill” about things because he doesn’t see everything as literal either. I didn’t know that. How have we been married for 15 years and I not know that? It is good to know now. He does see some things literal, which IMO, is where his fear and need to control our children comes in. I feel that I have been able to relax considerably when I let go of literal beliefs.
I followed all the responses to this thread as they were posted and just wanted to say “thanks” to everyone for the terrific responses. It is great to be amongst so many thoughtful and inspiring people. I am strengthened by many here who find ways to make it all work. I find myself re-reading posts here frequently, especially when I need to remember why staying LDS is the best option for me (which I believe it to be). So, again, THANK YOU for the great ideas.
LDSThomas
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