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When to Baptize Children. We confess to having been considerably surprised when attending one of our latest Sunday School conventions on learning that in some wards in the Church only once or twice in each year are opportunities given to the children of the Saints to be baptized. We hold the opinion that in every stake of Zion there should be opportunity for baptism every day of every month and every month in every year, for we believe that it is an admirable practice where parents, in conformity with the revelations of God, have taught their children in the first principles of the gospel – faith, repentance and baptism, to have them baptized on their birthdays, when they arrive at the age of eight years. This practice has many advantages. In the first place, when a child is baptized on his birthday, he has no difficulty in remembering the day when that sacred ordinance was performed in his case. Again, it prevents a tendency manifested by some people to delay and postpone duties that are always best performed in their proper time and season. When once a child has passed the eight year mark, there appears no particular necessity for the immediate performance of the ordinance, and the parents are apt to put it off from day to day and from week to week, until months have passed over, and the matter is not attended to. Should it so happen that in this interval the child is taken by the Lord, then this rite has to be performed in his behalf after his departure from our midst. How much better it is that the child have the opportunity of doing this all-important work for himself or herself. – Juvenile Instrucor, Vol. 40, p. 337, June 1, 1905. Joseph F. Smith See also Gospel Doctrine p. 120I read this quote as a missionary when I was reading a number of books and learning, as I suppossed, the doctrine of the church. After reading this I imagined baptising my children on their 8th birthday. The bishop has been very supportive and we have scheduled the building for DD’s birthday on a Sunday. What is annoying is the reactions that I get when I tell people. A number of them (from the in-laws to DD’s primary teacher) act as though we are spoiled and seeking special treatment. Nobody has ever heard of this Joseph F. Smith quote (it took much googling to find it myself and I had to transcribe it from a google book) and so they seem to be treating me like I am making stuff up or dabbling in the speculative mysteries. It’s not like I am building a prayer altar in my living room or anointing my wife prior to childbirth or asking to perform the baptism in the river. I guess the overall pushback I am getting has the unspoken message of, “Why can’t your daughter be baptised just like everyone else?”
In Utah the current tradition is to have a Stake baptism day. The current tradition in my non-Utah ward is to have the baptism on a Saturday.
I would appreciate alternate perspectives for balance.
I’m so glad I’m away in a country where nobody really cares about things like this. I baptised my son on a Wednedsay morning this year. It was a national holiday. We had a good turnout and many said they appreciated the spirit of it. No-one said anything about Saturdays or any other day.
I’m bemused that you’d get any reaction at all.
Is the issue that you’re doing it on the actual day of turning 8? Is it that you’re not taking them to the ‘mass-baptism’ day that seems like more of a sheep-dip procession than a personal experience?
Why a Stake Baptism day in Utah? The least they could do is a Ward one so it’s fewer people and people you actually know.
I am in favor of baptisms being individual, to the extent possible, or with a few close friends who turn eight in the same month, in cases like some Utah wards where Primary is huge or with one of my daughters who had two really good friends with all three birthdays being only a couple of weeks apart. I’ve always hated mass stake baptisms. I understand the desire to not make people attend baptismal services multiple times each month, or, in some cases, each week. I also understand wanting an equal turnout for each child, so nobody feels left out and unloved if only a few people show up.
So, yeah, I get it from an organizational standpoint, especially in wards and stakes with hundreds of kids, but I personally prefer smaller, individual ceremonies.
I’m pretty sure my dad is familiar with that quote, since he made sure to baptize all of us kids on our birthdays. He even made special arraignments to baptize my niece on her birthday in a different state from where she went to church. I think it is nice to do it that way, where possible. I also think if they do have to do it once a month, if it could at least just be the ward and not the whole stake. It seems like the last few I’ve been to there weren’t very many kids being baptized anyway, so why not make it special if it would be so easy to? My son’s birthday is in September, but since conference is the first Saturday of the month after his birthday, they are going to push him back to November to be baptized. I think he’s the only one in our ward who would be baptized that day, so I wish we could just do it closer to his birthday. (Our stake does it the first Saturday before a fast Sunday). I am surprised anyone cares that you are doing it how you want, why does it matter to anyone else? And you know, it makes me think of other special events that are done in groups (at least in Utah) like getting endowments and getting sealed. I got married in Salt Lake City temple on a busy August day. Not as special as I would have liked. (by the way, husband picked that temple, not me!)
My thoughts on why some folks in your ward wouldn’t be as excited as you are at the prospect of a child’s baptism following the 3-hour block are these: 1. When I’ve already been at church for three hours on a Sunday, I’m not happy about having to stay longer for any meeting. Period. Once I get home from church on Sunday, I don’t want to go back. As Ray noted on another thread regarding Saturdays, Sunday is the only day of the week I really have for myself and to spend time with my family. Anything that takes away from that is going to be viewed less-than-enthusiastically by me. Perhaps some members of your ward are in the same boat as I am.
2. It’s not the mainstream thing. Any time you try and do something in the church that isn’t the way everyone else does it, you’re going to get pushback.
I guess I’d say that if you want a special, unique experience for your daughter, don’t expect everyone whom you might wish to be there to actually show up. Please note that I’m not saying they’re right or wrong; just that I think I can see why they’d be a little miffed.
I am currently the Primary Pres in our ward, not in Utah but close enough. We have Stake baptisms on a Saturday monthly. Like Ray said, it is extra work from an organizational standpoint to have them each individually. There are roughly 150 kids baptized in our stake yearly. I know when my parents were baptized 50 years ago that they just went to the church and the Priest Quorum baptized whoever was there. No family was there for either one. Until the last handbook came out our stake was insisting that the confirmation be done in Sacrament Meeting the following day. I am so happy they decided to lay off on that pressure/coerce and
allowthe kids to have that done when they wanted. I have often felt the stake leaders have a picture of closeness within the stake that is unrealistic. Bottom line is that it is just one more meeting for them to attend. We have picked the day for our kids baptism for all six of them (I think). The reason that the leadership might not want to do it is that they usually plan them and they might not want to come to an “extra” church thing that week. We planned them completely with the only person from our ward that had to be there was a member of the bishopric (per handbook requirements). The reason that some family would not want it on a Sunday, for us anyway, is that we don’t live near them. They would be wanting to travel back home on Sunday afternoon. That may not be an issue for you. I think it would be a very memorable day to be baptized on her birthday. I was baptized in a river, and confirmed a few minutes later beside a fire, sitting on a stump of wood, while still dripping wet. I enjoyed it much more than the countless baptisms at the stake center which seem very much like overly long recruiting fairs with the missionaries giving off-the-cuff first discussions while the candidates are drying off for 25 minutes.
I was in a bishopric for a while, and being over primary, helped to organize baptisms. I remember from the administrative point, it was just easier to fill the font and schedule the primary leadership to come once a month for all the kids that month that would be baptized. Sometimes administrative matters and practical practices to be efficient come at a cost to the individual feelings of families.
On the other hand, we were having many families make it a BIG ceremony, with 45 minute video and slideshow presentations of the kids growing up and multiple speakers (visiting family members) as well as “open house” parties afterwards in the back yard of their house.
I don’t know that I would say it was too much, as baptism is important…but it did seem excessive to me, and a bit of a spirit of “out-doing” others in trying to make it so special that the meaning of some things seemed to get blurred.
My last son was baptized with another boy in the primary. They have been good friends ever since and still talk about the day they shared their baptism. I’ve recently moved and we are in a new ward, but we just had that friend from the old ward come play with my son as they are still friends. So for them, it was special sharing it together instead of having it specifically on their individual birthdays.
I seem to favor it as a scheduled baptism shared by all who need to do it on the Sunday, rather than making it too special where people make plans to go to rivers or hold it on a specific date. But I see no reason why it should be mandated. If a family feels it is important to do it on a Sunday, then I would hope leaders would respect that and accommodate. But for most, the practical shared baptisms are a good idea too and can still be made special for the 8 year old.
That’s my view.
They could speed things along by having to font automatically start draining 15 minutes after it is filled. Keep it a special moment, rather than an ordeal to endure. Well if they would realize that would not have to fill and drain the font If They Got Baptized In A RIVER…Maybe it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
My biggest complaint about this is converts can pick and choose and self taylor their baptism all they want. Where and when and what kind of program. So why do we treat faithful members and child of record baptisms as as second-class citizens? This is my beef.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I agree, cwald. One of my biggest concerns about lots of things is how the standards are different for converts (often more stringent, ironically) than for members of record.
I want to thank everyone for the diverse perspectives. I recently attended a mass stake baptism in Logan Utah. The good part is that there were many people there to support the baptisms.
Old-Timer wrote:I also understand wanting an equal turnout for each child, so nobody feels left out and unloved if only a few people show up.
Heber13 wrote:On the other hand, we were having many families make it a BIG ceremony, with 45 minute video and slideshow presentations of the kids growing up and multiple speakers (visiting family members) as well as “open house” parties afterwards in the back yard of their house.
I don’t know that I would say it was too much, as baptism is important…but it did seem excessive to me, and a bit of a spirit of “out-doing” others in trying to make it so special that the meaning of some things seemed to get blurred.
I admit that I want this to be special for DD. In the last few months I have attended 3 baptisms in my local ward and there were only a handful of people present. There does not seem to be enough people turning 8 that a multiple baptism would even be an option. (Unless we were to postpone the baptism for multiple months wich is truly what the JFS quote seems to be decrying.)I have considered making baptism invitations and inviting everyone we know. I have considered having a slideshow presentation of DD growing up to watch during the changing time (better than singing hymns or having the missionaries teach to pass the time.) At the mass stake baptism I attended, all the mothers were asked to do a spotlight talk on their child. I have considered incorporating this.
I see this as a rite of passage. Unfortunately, I do not believe it is reasonable to expect this baptism to be DD’s personal decision and also dictate that it needs to happen in a certain year, month, day. So I am willing to discard the idea that this is of her own volition.
It is still meaningful on multiple levels – one of which is that she will now be an official member of the church community. It is a milestone of reaching a certain important age. Another important element is that this can be a bonding memory between DD and me. I am seriously thankful that my bishop is not taking a hard stance on this (I am not strictly temple worthy and I understand things like this are at the discretion of the bishop).
OTOH, I wouldn’t want Mormon baptisms to have some of the excesses seen in bar mitzvahs and quinceaneras.
I guess in summary there is (and should be) a constant tension between the needs of the organization and the needs of the individual. An important part of the process is that DD becomes a member of the community. That goal might be stymied if many of the community think we are thumbing our noses at the community.
Balance and discretion is appropriate…mariachi band canceled.
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