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Gail, I meant exactly what I said – that, in the near future, I would like to see homosexual members be able to do anything that single, heterosexual members can do without being disciplined. Right now, there still is a double standard. It’s nowhere near what it used to be, but it’s still there. I’ve written about this topic (all of us have) quite extensively in threads that are dedicated to the general topic of homosexuality. I would suggest, as I always do in this type of discussion, that you look through the archives for topics that deal with homosexuality primarily and directly. There’s quite a bit here.
I’m probably late. I skimmed your post and thought that I should say that you shouldn’t call yourself an apostate. There isn’t much wrong in disagreeing with someone, anyone leader or not. In fact I think pretty highly of people who don’t take absolutes at face vaule, I think a certain someone up in the sky probably admires it as well but thats just me. So it seems like you believe SSA is biological, cool so do I. There is no harm at all in thinking that way. My DH jokes with me and calls me the anti-christ or sometimes the apostate .. But he is the one who never gives homeless people money and makes fun of them, not me. Heaven forbid I think SSA is developed in utero..what an anti-christ I am. Btw DH and I joke a lott now about just about anything religion related – he seems to have some underlying dis-cog going on I think. Anyway you sound bright and pretty nice to me. Good luck with everything!
If you’re late Lala, then I’m really late. Gail, I just want to add my welcome. I’ve really appreciated the support I’ve gotten from this group in my few short weeks actively participating. I too think homosexuality is something you’re born with, or not. My very unorthodox prediction: I think homosexuals will be able to get married in the temple within the next 50 years or so. I know that the Church couldn’t want anything less, but it also didn’t want to give up polygamy, or to give blacks the priesthood, two well entrenched doctrines, as deep as the anti-gay bit, I think. I’m sure I’m in a very small minority in projecting that, but it is what I honestly think. To it’s credit, the Church is very good at back-peddling to whatever degree is needed to continue to survive. It will not allow itself to be so unmainstream that it risks falling apart, and I think the gay marriage issue is going to push the church to the point that it will have to cave, even if long after most conservatives churches have.
Anyway, welcome!
Thank you Herodotus and everyone for your welcome and support. I add my gratitude to the many others that have expressed here for this forum. The internet is a unique place to find like minded friends without being restricted by geography, publicity, or social confinement. Herodotus:
“To it’s credit, the Church is very good at back-peddling to whatever degree is needed to continue to survive. It will not allow itself to be so unmainstream that it risks falling apart, and I think the gay marriage issue is going to push the church to the point that it will have to cave, even if long after most conservatives churches have.”
I do stand in awe of the church’s ability to not only back-peddle, but to direct the membership to turn their actions and their views on a dime. I also find it simply amazing how forgetful and selective the church’s collective memory is.
For the church membership of the today polygamy was a merciful way to take care of widows and women unable to compete for a husband. And I find few that remember the openly bigoted explanations for blacks not holding the priesthood.
When something is no longer part of one’s life (like polygamy now), it is very easy to let it go and forget about it – for MOST people, who really don’t care all that much about details of the past anyway. That’s just human nature, and I find it’s good to let them let go without judgment. All of us have enough crap with which we have to struggle to not need others throwing more crap at us with which we don’t want to struggle. Therefore, I try not to be a crap thrower. As to the former justifications for the Priesthood ban, I’m glad the younger generation generally doesn’t know them. (and I think younger people have a built-in “that was just the stupidity of my parents” mechanism to deal with stuff like that) I mean that. What’s not known drops from the collective consciousness, and some things are best left forgotten. As a Social Studies teacher by inclination, I’m all for learning from history, but I also am all for not keeping alive dead doctrines of the past. It’s a fine line, but I’m ok not teaching the general populace ways to justify bigotry. I would rather teach the new understanding agressively than dwell on the old rationales.
Ray, I agree with you on the new generation. What I find perplexing are the many of the generations old enough to remember well that claim no memory.
Your philosophy of not teaching the justification of the bigotry and only teaching the good stuff, has some very good company. This is very similar to the Book of Mormons teaching we should not teach secret condemnations. I may be very wrong, but I question this idea. How do we truly learn from history if we can not examine the thinking of intelligent good meaning individuals of the past who were mistaken so we can compare our thinking on other topics.
I just finished re-reading “To Kill a Mocking Bird”. Again I cried, but this time for different reasons. The completely illogical ideas of the perfectly respectable and intelligent citizenry of Maycomb county is way to similar to the ideas of so many Mormons in my life when justifying working to destroy the families of gay couples.
Most church teachings are clearly laid out clearly in the scriptures or expressly denoted in modern revelation. I find the exceptions seem to resonate uncomfortably. One being the justifications of with holding the priesthood and temple participation from worthy blacks, these were not only were taught widely among the membership but also taught by the leadership in confrence. The other being the church policies and it’s political actions against homosexuals, also taught widely amongst the members as well as from the leadership. I believe it is important to look closely at the mistakes of the past so we can clearly see the mistakes of the present and try to change them.
Herodotus wrote:If you’re late Lala, then I’m really late. Gail, I just want to add my welcome. I’ve really appreciated the support I’ve gotten from this group in my few short weeks actively participating.
A few weeks only? It already seems like you are an old timer, H.
Gail, you share my middle name (Thomas Gail Haws). Welcome to our little community of LDS friends. I hope you will find us friendly and faithful as well as understanding of the path you are in.
Tom
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