Where I am Now. How About You?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update Shawn. You’ve contributed a lot over the years here.

Shawn wrote:

It helps me to stay away from controversial topics

I agree with this, and think being obsessed with them is not good. There are times we should take breaks. Perhaps times we focus on the non-controversial and just live a mormon life without such deep thinking all the time.

Shawn wrote:

I kinda think the church is to some degree in a state of apostacy.

I respect your opinion, but I do not see it that way. That’s ok. We can disagree. :thumbup:

Shawn wrote:

we need to talk more of Christ and less of men!

Good point.

I hope you are finding peace in your life. Thanks for sharing your update.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

Quote:

Shawn wrote:I kinda think the church is to some degree in a state of apostacy.

I respect your opinion, but I do not see it that way. That’s ok. We can disagree.

I actually can agree with shawn on a technicallity while also understanding the inflamatory nature of the word “apostacy.”

Shawn wrote:

Simply put, it’s not perfect. However, I don’t know of a religion that has more truth or better programs.

The church in some ways is a shadow, model, or representation of the perfect ideal. To the degree that the church has truth mixed with error – the error could be seen as apostacy. Now, we are never going to be error free in this life and in that sense apostacy is just part of the human condition.

I believe it was Pres. Hinckley that said that our temples are “monuments to our belief in the eternal nature of souls.” One can look at the church in the same way – as a monument to our belief. Perhaps an imperfect, incomplete, and inadequate monument to a lovely ideal. As limited as the monument may be – building it can still be an enobling venture.

For the sake of better communication – I agree that the word apostacy should probably be avoided.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update Shawn. I really do appreciate your insights.

I’m not sure apostasy is the right word, but I do think the church is very Pharisaical. I agree with you about the “follow the prophet” mantra and that we spend too much time on them as opposed tot he words of our Savior. I think I am fortunate to live in a stake where the president emphasizes and encourages the teachings of Jesus, but he has little control over the curriculum itself because that’s correlated.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

Thanks for the update Shawn. I really do appreciate your insights.

I’m not sure apostasy is the right word, but I do think the church is very Pharisaical. I agree with you about the “follow the prophet” mantra and that we spend too much time on them as opposed tot he words of our Savior. I think I am fortunate to live in a stake where the president emphasizes and encourages the teachings of Jesus, but he has little control over the curriculum itself because that’s correlated.

I agree with both of you on some levels. I wonder what happened to the revelations and the spiritual outpourings of the early church. You hear stories and Mormon myths, but when was the last time we had an experience such as that? The infallible leader viewpoint that the majority of people have is dangerous to us as information like we all know is a match waiting to ignite- I wish we could be more transparent and real about things.

There has been more emphasis on Christ with the mormon.org and etc., but people like me raised on the church have so much weight on the prophets and stuff imbedded in us, it’s hard to differentiate.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. The way I see it now, the church is in error to a small degree due to the over-emphasis on following the prophet. I hear it so much nowadays that it is detracting from following Christ. Maybe “apostacy” was too strong of a word.

[Anonymous]

Nice to see, Shawn. I’ve haven’t been on here. Just needed a break. Get bored and over-whelmed sometimes. I agree with you Shawn that the church is far from perfect and needs to emphasize Christ more and less on prophets. It’s slowly starting to do that more. I still have strong faith in the church even with all its warts. 🙂

[Anonymous]

It was nice to hear from you Shawn. Glad you’re feeling a little better now. It can be so frustrating sometimes how a FC/FT can ebb and flow. Sometimes I get to a place where I feel like I’ve turned the corner and I’m comfortable with the church, only to have something happen and make it extremely difficult to be OK with it.

Quote:

I am so tired of the “follow the prophet” mantra. It seems to detract from the Lord’s words “Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not.” People say, “But the prophet directs us to Christ.” True, but the prophet is NOT our intermediary and we need to talk more of Christ and less of men! We spend precious little time in church studying the words of Jesus recorded in the New Testament compared to the time we spend with those “Teachings of Presidents” manuals.

I feel this very strongly as well. I can understand why people question whether or not we’re Christians sometimes. I’ve gone through whole days at church and only heard Christ mentioned in prayers. It’s not always that way, but it often is. Lessons and talks focused on Christ are so uplifting and comforting. Whenever I teach or give a talk, I try to make Christ the center of it, no matter what the topic is. When we’re disciples of Christ as a church, we’re at our best. I hope to see more of that as the church itself goes through this current transition.

[Anonymous]

I want to further clarify what I meant by “I kinda think the church is to some degree in a state of apostacy.” When I wrote that, I was thinking that the church is in error only in some small things, so I did not mean that the church is in state of general apostasy and should be abandoned. (I also realized I’ve been spelling apostasy wrong.)

[Anonymous]

sue,

a) You might get that. Less than a year after I joined the church I started a job where I had to work every Sunday. The job lasted for several months, when I finally was able to come back to church people did notice. They didn’t put on a big production but several people did make it a point to talk to me. It was a good experience though, I felt very welcomed which actually made it easier to come back the following Sunday. It helps to frame any odd behavior as people expressing their love for you the only way they know how.

b) I’d hope that they don’t immediately jump on you by assigning a talk. In my experience the people that are assigned a talk are typically people that are recent move-ins, people that are about to move out, or people that haven’t spoken in a few years.

c) I don’t want to scare you off but my experience is that you will eventually be asked to accept a calling. Probably not your first Sunday back but eventually. It helps to know it is coming and one thing I didn’t know for many, many years as a member of the church… it’s perfectly fine to politely decline invitations. That goes for giving a talk as well. I had been conditioned to say “yes” to all calling invitations but that’s not healthy. God doesn’t want us to do anything we are uncomfortable with, there’s even a scripture or two about not running faster than we are able. Setting the treadmill dial is between us and the lord.

d)

1) Don’t make a fast and testimony meeting your first Sunday back.

2) I feel you. For me last Sunday’s theme was the 14 fundamentals of following the prophet, complete with all the praise to the man hymns that could be found in the hymnal. I found myself muttering my thanks that there wasn’t a sacrament hymn that focused on how great the prophets are. It was a tough Sunday to muscle through… but the silver lining is that future sacrament meeting themes aren’t going to be the 14 fundamentals again for at least the next 3 or 4 weeks :lolno: I kid, last Sunday probably bought me about a 4 to 6 month reprieve. It’s a good thing too, I recently declined giving a talk because I was extremely sick so I know they’ll be asking again shortly. I’d rather not give a talk on the 14 fundamentals.

Some Sundays are tougher than others. Some Sundays are good.

Some advice I’ve read on this site is to take your break (and I’ll add take it guilt free) and only add the church back when you feel like you need it. You can continue to increase your activity level until you become uncomfortable again and then you can scale back. Find that balance where you’re getting the amount of church you need. Your church pH level. Some other advice that I’ve seen on this site that’s really helped me is to “always trade up.” Replace bad things with good things and good things with better things.

I wish you were in my ward, I’d sit in the back with you and shoo people away with a stick. At least until you got embarrassed and asked me to stop.

[Anonymous]

sue wrote:

Your other comment about making strides then something happening to cause a setback…i have finally decided after “taking a break” from church for many, many months that i would go back this Sunday (god willing and i don’t chicken out). I’m so afraid that either a.) someone is going to make a big deal that i’ve come back and remind everyone in the process i had left for awhile, b.) get asked to give a talk right away since it’s been over a year from my last one (i honestly am not in a good place right now to speak on church doctrine), c.) will be asked to accept a calling to get me to return full time (my last experience with callings is what prompted me to finally say to heck with it), or d.) i will hear some really wacky stuff in sacrament and will decide that i can’t stand to listen to the talks anymore period and leave permanently (or the standard i know the church is true, T. M. is a prophet, etc.) I fear b and c only because it may cause me to share my true feelings of what i have been thinking if i refuse to do it and they ask why…then it will no longer be a semi private battle.

I have been reading up on the lds.org website lately to get a feel for what i’ve been missing and hope i don’t get overwhelmed. I may take someones advice from here and arrive late and leave early.

I had these same concerns when I returned after being absent for years. I had desires to return for months before I actually did it – mostly because of concerns like these. FWIW, I did talk with my bishop before returning and shared some of the concerns with him. He did run a bit of interference, and I am aware that he asked ward council members to avoid statements like “It’s nice to have you back” and “we haven’t seen you in a long time.” (As a side note, things like this really bugged me when I would run into people at the store and what not.) He also came over to me immediately after the meeting and just casually chatted, which also deflected some of those might be tempted to be fools. That helped with “a” but I can’t say I was totally free of it – one semi-active idiot did make a fool of himself, but I had been attending for a couple weeks when that happened. The first week back I arranged with a friend to text me when the meeting was starting and walked in during the opening hymn and sat on the back road. I didn’t stay for all the meeting that day, but I also didn’t leave during the closing hymn. I knew some of the people to avoid and I avoided them (and still do), and I learned of some others to avoid. I also found some who would give refuge – I have essentially hung out with the same group of Sunday School skippers for the last year (we sometimes have some great conversations).

b & c If you do meet or call the bishop, tell him you’re not ready to speak/pray/whatever. I don’t know your bishop, but most really are understanding. If there is anything at all you might feel comfortable doing (something low key that doesn’t involve teaching perhaps), offer.

d – This was a biggie for me 9and sometimes still is). I have a very hard time with the stuff people “know” that I know they really don’t know at all, and the God of the Lost Car Keys, and a myriad of other things. Bring your phone/tablet and if things start to stray from your comfort level, retreat to the device. I have some favorite talks bookmarked (like Uchtdorf’s Come, Join With Us), I read scriptures, sometimes I surf the net, sometimes I come here, sometimes I play games (the seminary teacher sits in front of me, she always plays games), sometimes I compose my own talk on the same or a different subject, I read the essays, etc. Electronics are wonderful!

I thought I had described the experience here on the forums, but I went back and searched and couldn’t find it. It did take me a few weeks to settle in to the routine.

[Anonymous]

I am in a 50/50 place right now. I attend about half the time. The opportunity came up because I was recovering from surgery, I had an extended time off and I really enjoyed spiritually feeding myself. I did miss hymns, and I like connecting with people, especially people who have had a hard week or things. I am a nurturer by nature, so if I can chat with someone and they can share their worries I feel like I did something useful.

But being at home, reading my own scriptures and listening to choirs online was so renewing, I am a bit reluctant to give that up. In addition in the weeks I have returned, I have had some of the bumpiest talks and lessons. 14 Fundamentals, Uchtdorfs 2014 Conference talk which turned into a pray, pay and obey lesson (not the intent of his talk but the teacher and class ran with it that way), Thomas Marsh’s Milk and Cream story that turned to eventual apostasy talk – in Sacrament meeting no less. All of this made me we want to run home again.

I am hanging on, but it is definitely a low point. Problem is I really like my LDS version of the gospel, if I took time off, I don’t see myself at another church. I’ve tried quite a few. I find lots to like and plenty to dismiss, which puts all of them on an even scale for me.

For the next couple weeks I am off because of Spring Breaks with my kids. I will see where I am after Conference.

[Author]

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