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First, some background. I am a lifetime member of the Church. I go back to 1st generation Mormons, the Joseph Knight Sr. family who aided Joseph Smith and help to enable the translation of the Book of Mormon. I served a mission in Tokyo, Japan in the 1980’s, shortly after the portable-baptismal-font era where thousands of “members” were baptized without adequate preparation or knowledge, leaving us – the missionaries – to spend at least 1/3rd of our proselyting time looking up and trying to make contact with all of the members of record, many of whom never knew they had “joined” a church by going swimming with their American friends (I am not exaggerating. I have a good book on it if you are interested in the facts). It was a very difficult time for the Church in Japan and I don’t think we’ve recovered from it yet. I attended BYU where I met my wife, got married in the Salt Lake Temple, and got my degree. I pursued getting hired as a full-time CES instructor and, though I was greatly saddened at the time to flush out, can see now that it was better for me and the Church that I didn’t get hired. It did give me invaluable training in learning how to be a good teacher (contrary to what you might think, it wasn’t allabout whatto teach). I spent most of a decade as a ward clerk and then stake clerk. I served two different stake presidencies and watched the process when Elder (at the time) Eyring came to release and call the new SP. I saw and served in Church administration and witnessed first hand how the process worked. For the most part, I was amazed and humbled at how Church leaders strove to manage their stewardships. I also worked for 7 years at Church Headquarters in SLC as a computer and network specialist. So I guess you could say that the Church has been a major part of my life all of my life.
Several years ago, pieces of a puzzle started being put together for me and I was diagnosed as bipolar and went into a severe depression. My world came crashing down. I wasn’t able to work after I received over 40 ECT (electro-convulsive therapy) treatments that consequently left me with functional Alzheimer’s, having most of my short, medium, and long term memory and recall ability wiped out that, to date, have not returned. I lost my memory of my kids births, my high school and college years, my early marriage, and especially anything over the past 3-4 years. It is beyond what you would think possible could happen to you from trying to manage a disease short of brain trauma, but I was advised of the possibility before I started. I just didn’t know it would get as bad as it has.
I was known as in my ward as a gospel scholar before all this. I was humbled and grateful to receive great praise as a Sunday School and Primary teacher (though my self-esteem and bipolar issues would not let me believe it). I have well over 300 books in my library that I would gradually read on topics of every description. Scriptures, philosophy, biography, prophecy, world religions, political science, history, classics. All of it is gone and I am having to start all over again. I was mid-way through getting a Masters degree at the University of Utah when this all happened. Now, I don’t know where I will go or what I will be able to do with myself. My disease is mostly stable, but I still go up and down.
As a result of all of this, I have been questioning my existence. Everything was all planned out – my career, my family, my membership in the Church. Now, I don’t know what to think. I have been questioning the existence of God and gods, Christ as a reality or imagination, the place of the Church on the earth and next to all of the other churches and ways of thinking and how can anyone really come to know “the truth” rather than just their personal perception or beliefs. I have run afoul of the “just ask God and get an answer for yourself” model, for I recognize that I have an emotional mental illness that plays with my emotions and feelings and it is common for people on anti-depressants to relate that they have difficulty having “spiritual” experiences. Just praying, reading the scriptures, etc. doesn’t give me any more feeling or inspiration or closeness to God than reading about the Koran or Buddhism or American folk history would do. I plan on starting some threads where I can ask some questions and get your varied perspectives to consider as I wrestle with these things myself.
I’m sorry this is so long. If you have read, thanks for reading. I have been looking for a support group where I can
feelsupport for a long time. I am hopeful this will be a place that can help. I have looked at other sites like NOM and MADB (and RfM), but I just feel a lot of negativity from them and would like to find something positive to consider for a change. I know all is not perfect or rose-colored here or in the Church, but I’m wanting to give it a chance before I make any changes that could destroy a life-time. More for later.
Welcome! My prayers to your health and healing. I hope you do find something here to support you. Thanks for sharing the long version of your story. I look forward to your comments. I hope you’ll feel some belonging here. This is one of the least judgmental Mormon forums you’ll find on earth in my view — from both angles — from a member standpoint, and from an organizational standpoing. Meaning — easy on the members, and easier on the Church than NOM and other spots on the web. I’m really sorry to hear about the memory loss. I wish the Venn Diagram of my life overlapped with the Venn Diagram of your life so I can comment and give meaningful advice on that one. However, I think we all understand the idea of losing one’s commitment and even faith in Mormonism, for whatever reason, so we may overlap more than meets the eye at the outset.
Sounds like you’re going through a period of major reconstruction right now. I’ve been there — taking everthing I assumed or believed and taking it apart, and starting from the ground up, putting it back together again. I think many of us find ways of being involved and active in the Church for reasons other than the traditional “burning in the breast” testimony, even if some of us still have that testimony and remember it. Sometimes it’s not enough to sustain commitment in the traditional sense. That has been my experience, anyway.
Looking forward to your specific questions on the site.
Welcome to the forum. Your life experience is an interesting one and I really appreciate you sharing it with us. I hope you now are able to find some peace and that you feel good about who you are, even while you are seeking answers and pursuing ways to cope with your situation. We all deserve some peace, regardless of situations that differ. I personally don’t believe God creates these tests for us, nor does He rush in to save us from them, no matter how valiant we are to man-made rules. They are just a part of mortality for us to experience and learn from.
Welcome. I look forward to learning from your posts!
I can’t imagine the challenges you face with your health alone. And when one questions deep held beliefs about the Church and God in general – that is a completely unnerving and potentially devastating experience on its own. My heart goes out to you. With regard to questioning – I have, like many here, asked the same questions. Not feeling comfortable completely embracing the Church and religion in general and yet feeling empty when I turn my back to it. I read a conference talk by a GA (I don’t remember who) and he told a story about a woman that joined as an adult, attended a few years then went inactive. On a visit to Temple Square the woman was touched and said something to the effect “My heart yearns for what my mind cannot accept”. That is me. Though I have experienced it rarely, I have been a part of experiences which are neither intellectual nor emotional in nature – they were that elusive “spiritual” happening that keeps my faith alive. At any rate, all I really wanted to say was that you are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope that you can find peace in your life. I admire your courage in seeking support. Best wishes. Antares- Thank you for your response. I know it wasn’t for me, but it describes so much of my heart. Today I needed the validation of being a person who has “spiritual” experiences that aren’t emotional nor intellectual. As I head to church today I hope you won’t mind if I tuck you imaginatively in my pocket as a friend for my day.
Thanks,
Mom3
Welcome. I have little time, so I just want to thank you for joining and sharing your story. May God bless you in whatever way you need, individually. May we bless you in whatever way we can, collectively. May you bless us as we get to know you personally.
Welcome! I can’t imagine what you have been through. Thanks for sharing. I whole-heartedly agree that the current model of asking and getting answers does not work well for those are emotionally “unique” (I hate the term mental illness). In my experience, antidepressants make me more likely to love things…especially if they hit a dopamine transmitter. I think it is near impossible to “feel the spirit” when depressed. I personally compare it to feeling like whale poo on the bottom of the deepest trench in the ocean the odds of light reaching you aren’t good short of a miracle. I wish God would make an exception for the emotionally unique to help them feel things like other people could. However, not even people who are “normal” (normal is relative right?) can feel the Spirit at times or get answers to prayer. Don’t beat yourself up about it.
I also view life from the angle that genetic variability is required to ensure the survival of the human species on a wild planet. The result of that variability is a certain percentage of people will have mental illness, congenital disorders, or maybe even be so screwed up they do not even live to be born. I look at this as not as a failure on the part of God, but a requirement to ensure humans can survive in a natural world. We have to have variability or a single disease could wipe us all out. For example, there are those who have developed unique antibodies that are being developed for vaccines etc. For those of us that are more mentally unique than others, the path can be more difficult but we can still find our place in society and live rewarding lives. (medication helps sometimes
I have a friend who was jockeying to be a CES teacher as well and ended up atheist. It works for him to a degree, but I think he would have been happier if he had tried to stay. I really hope than you can stick around here and find ways to work things out.
Welcome to the StayLDS community wjclerk, I hope we can be a support, or at least a comfort, to you in your journey. Thanks for taking the time to share your story. It sounds like you are on a tough road. Hang in there.
Sorry I haven’t been back to return the comments. I really appreciate your offers of support and friendship. I haven’t been able to get that for a long time. I haven’t been able to go to church more than once or twice this year. My family still goes, but my ward meets at 9 a.m. and I’m not able to get up on any day that early. I sometimes miss being with the ward members, sometimes I feel it is better to be alone while I am working things out. My family hasn’t had home teachers for at least 3 years now, but my wife keeps the Relief Society President briefed as to how I/we are doing, so I know that the ward is aware to some extent. I know others have things much worse off than I am. I don’t feel I am being singled out or picked on. I am just tired. I would like to see that there will be some light at the end of the tunnel somewhere down the line. Until then, I am just doing the best I can to keep going forward. I’m wondering, does anyone here have experience with anti-depressants affecting the ability to have spiritual experiences?
wjclerk wrote:Sorry I haven’t been back to return the comments. I really appreciate your offers of support and friendship. I haven’t been able to get that for a long time. I haven’t been able to go to church more than once or twice this year. My family still goes, but my ward meets at 9 a.m. and I’m not able to get up on any day that early. I sometimes miss being with the ward members, sometimes I feel it is better to be alone while I am working things out. My family hasn’t had home teachers for at least 3 years now, but my wife keeps the Relief Society President briefed as to how I/we are doing, so I know that the ward is aware to some extent.
I know others have things much worse off than I am. I don’t feel I am being singled out or picked on. I am just tired. I would like to see that there will be some light at the end of the tunnel somewhere down the line. Until then, I am just doing the best I can to keep going forward. I’m wondering, does anyone here have experience with anti-depressants affecting the ability to have spiritual experiences?
I had a brief stint with anti-depressants after a very trying Church experience. I took Alazopram (sp?) and Lexapro for about 3 weeks and returned to my normal self. The same spike in depression happened about a year and a half later over a combination of Church and other factors.
The effect of the drug during these periods was to divorce me somewhat from reality and my own thinking patterns. It also dragged me out and made me feel tired. I didn’t feel any desire for spirituality, unfortunately, so in that sense, yes, it interefered with my spirituality. I had no spiritual experiences during that period, although I had a gradual increase in my overall happiness, culminating in a return of my zest for life.
I believe depression makes it hard for us to feel the Spirit. The cloud of negativity it brings to our life is like a curtain that can be hard to pierce. So I see anti-depressants as a way of eventually restoring healthier thinking patterns, with the effect of making our minds more open to spirituality.
If someone suffers from clinical depression, I support the use of anti-depressants completely. It’s figuring out the specifics to make it work as well as possible that is the key. I have likened anti-depressants to the insulin my son uses to control his diabetes. Nobody in their right mind would tell my son not to take the insulin. It allows his body to function properly and wards off all kinds of terrible effects that not taking it would cause. That is NO different at all than anti-depressants, in theory. Side effects of particular drugs need to be considered, but a concern about spirituality shouldn’t keep someone from trying to find a good approach that works, imo. I believe if men are that they might have joy, being able to be happy trumps a little more “spirituality” but lots more angst, pain, suffering, confusion, lack of self-worth, possibly suicidal thoughts, etc. every single time.
I think that spiritual experiences originate from an external source, but are often experienced through our mortal body in thoughts and feelings. Hence Ray’s tagline, “We see through a glass, darkly”. All revelation is subject to discerning it in mortality through the bodies we have. When I was counselor in the bishopric, my bishop went on meds to deal with stress, and then went off because he could no longer feel the spirit guiding him. It seemed he had to choose what way to live…with spiritual experiences, and with depressing and unbalanced emotions, or he could take meds and balance his emotions but lose the spiritual promptings he sought after.
I don’t think that is true for everyone, because people seek spiritual impressions in different ways, so it is possible to be on meds and still experience spirituality for some people.
But that was the catalyst to his crisis of faith after being released. He has since become inactive at church, sadly.
I think Ray’s comment is fair. Medications are clearly needed in many situations, but it is not an exact science, and often need many doctor evaluations to tweak them and balance them to the right point that the individual is satisfied with the quality of life. And often many people go on and off and back on meds as they work through what is best for their situation.
I wish resolving depression and mental illnesses was just a matter of faith, just believing in yourself or something else enough, or just thinking enough positive thoughts to overcome the dark and depressing ones to make them go away. I have read in another thread about people sharing their beliefs whether Satan is real or is just a name for the evil or negative part that is inherent in our human, mortal existence. I don’t feel comfortable saying that Satan or evil spirits (or their influence) are responsible for my emotional problems and distress any more than I believe they are responsible for my diabetes or any other health problem. Some things appear to have a very biological basis or relationship to the spiritual aspects they are connected to. Medicine helps. Without it, I am on a constant emotional rollercoaster that goes from one extreme to another. What I do find is that while on medication, my sensitivity and ability to reason as well as I used to has been affected. I don’t often cry. I used to get “spiritual promptings” that affected what I felt and what I believed. I now feel like the heavens are brass and every attempt I make to penetrate and connect is just reflected back down at me. I feel alone in the cosmos.
Before I got sick, I was in a fast and testimony meeting where a mother about my age (early 40’s) got up and explained that this was the first time she had been back to church for 5 years. She had been wrestling with depression and social anxiety while her kids and her husband watched and tried to help from the sidelines. She said many days she couldn’t even get out of bed to fix meals or take care of her children. Her husband was there to take on her share of the responsibility while she wrestled her demons. At the time, I couldn’t believe a person could be so taken out as to not even be able to contribute at all to the care and support of a family or even watching out for herself. Now, I deeply understand. At the time, I thought it incredible that someone could go through this for 5 years – be away from church and limited contact with ward members and difficulties going on at home that no one outside had any idea about. Now, I wonder how she managed to get out of it or if she just had to “wait it out.”
At times, it feels like we are very isolated from the divine and the pouring out of spiritual gifts that seemed so common in Joseph Smith’s day or in BOM or Bible times to those who are gifted or valiant enough to have the requisite amount of faith. If it is a matter of having enough faith, what if our (my) faith has run out?
It’s not a matter of faith – at least not in all cases. My mother has a rare form of schizophrenia. Without her medication, she can feel extreme emotions – and, in her demented state, she experiences extreme “evil” AND extreme “divinity”. It really is scary how wildly her emotions fluctuate – how she literally is two very different people. Her medication allows her to be the person she wants to be – even though, if she could remember her “highs” without the meds, she might pine for them. The thing is, those highs aren’t worth the lows – and it’s not even close. With her meds, she’s a super sweet person – since they ward off the bad times.
I don’t know what your answer will be, but I am confident, given what you’ve shared, that it’s not a matter of faith. It’s a chemical imbalance of some sort – and you have to decide what is best for you to do. I simply ask that you not make a decision to forgo medication in a mistaken idea that such an approach in the “faithful” one.
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