Where to turn???

[Anonymous]

This is my first post on this forum, and I am not writing it to complain – I really am in need of some help, and seemingly have nowhere else to turn. This is not easy for me to write…even in an anonymous forum such as this. I am very fragile emotionally right now so, please do not judge me harshly for how I might come across.

I am physically, spiritually, and emotionally exhausted. I have spent my entire 20 year marriage working 2 and often 3 jobs to feed my family. For the past 12 years, I have worked 2 full time jobs the entire time, and simply don’t know if I can do it much longer.

Sleep to me is not an enjoyable thing as bad things happen to me at night, but I literally sleep 2-3 hours per night max. My mind is not clear, I have been making some poor choices, and my marriage is HORRIBLE! Clearly I need a change, but have no clue how to do it. Every time I plan on cutting back at work, the car breaks down, the roof starts leaking, or something else comes up that makes working less impossible.

I have completely quit going to church due to some silly notion that I need to stay away to lessen my stress level. Of course it hasn’t helped much, but going back seems like an impossibly difficult task right now. The church to me is little more than a place that makes me feel guilty for much of what I am doing, and I don’t really need that right now. I’m beat down enough.

I have 5 wonderful children. My oldest son just started college and I barely know him due to my work schedule. The other kids don’t know me very well either, and my wife and I have been fighting like crazy. We didn’t say one word to each other for 4 months, and just started talking again, but now we only yell at each other. This morning I yelled the F word at her as I was leaving for work. Not talking was way better. I have filled out divorce papers, but haven’t yet had the courage to submit them.

I have tried counseling, medication, and lots of fasting and prayer, but nothing seems to help. I am literally at the end of my rope and don’t think I can do it much longer. The bishop has given up on me and I don’t blame him, but where else do I go? Anyway, I am writing this in the hope that somebody, anybody will have an answer or at least a suggestion of what I can do to improve my situation. Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous]

Hi Wendell,

I feel for you dude. I can’t say my stress level is as high as yours, but I definitely feel that provider panic every day … every single day. Try and hang in there! By that I don’t mean get back to work and kill yourself worse.

It really doesn’t sound like you have an LDS religion problem. It sounds like you have a bunch of serious day-to-day life problems. You can’t pray or medicate your way out of a financial hole. The number one marriage stress out there is financial. Sleep deprivation will throw your entire being out of whack too.

I am not sure divorce will really solve your problems either, unless you are talking about abandoning your children (not something I can recommend in good conscience). My wife and I joke about not being able to divorce because we could never afford it … but humor always has at least a grain of truth in it. We couldn’t. We barely make it as is with 6 kids, let alone trying to setup two households.

There has to be a way to reorganize your life and your finances. It might take a radical change in lifestyle. It might take a total restructuring of debt and finances. Your wife might have to work (doesn’t sound like she is).

I’ll be blunt. If you are working 3 jobs and not living well. You probably could live better working one full time job and qualify for government assistance programs. My family ate way better when we qualified for food stamps while I was unemployed this summer … sad but true. I found another job, but the experience was eye-opening.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate your response. Actually, I didn’t mention my issues with the church too much, but in fact, I really struggle with several things about the church. It’s just that my life is in such disarray right now that even attempting to address my issues with the church seems secondary. As I said, I have a testimony of the gospel, but to me the church is NOT the gospel. Basically, I used to attend meetings to please my wife and have some social connections for my kids. In all reality, I do not enjoy the church at all. I know it may not make sense, but it is way way way too tough for me to explain very well. I have always felt like the church should be a respite for people, but it has never been that for me. It feels like I am being judged at every turn for any decision I make. Anyway, the church is a take it or leave it thing with me right now. I would love to feel included, needed, and wanted there, but I simply don’t.

I don’t know if divorce is the answer either, but staying married is definitely not. I am completely lost and feel like I have no other choice right now.

Sleep deprivation is tough, but some truly terrifying things happen to me during the night. I hate sleeping.

My finances are not really a mess. My wife works about 10 hours per week, but she refuses to do more than that. I work as much as I do in order to allow my kids to develop their talents. They are all exceptionally gifted athletes in an expensive sport. If God did not want them to develop their talents, then why did he give them to my children? We are very very frugal and we get by on the bare minimum most of the time, but it is expensive to keep them doing what they love.

Anyway, thanks for your response. I appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Wendell. I’m so glad you dropped by. I have a few thoughts:

1. Valoel’s last two paragraphs are very wise. Pay close attention to them. As Valoel said, you have to change something. As the radio Financial Peace guy, Dave Ramsey says, you are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Is there some way you can simplify something? Is there anything you can let go? If you weren’t so frazzled, I would suggest you might read “Clutter’s Last Stand”, the Sermon on the Mount, the Book of Luke, and “Walden”. You desperately are needing to simplify so you can do some important things.

2. I sadly just set up two households. It isn’t easier financially.

3. Valoel said you don’t specifically have an LDS religion problem, and it’s true you didn’t explicitly mention one, but I wonder if inwardly you are acknowledging that you are trying to live up to some expactations that are LDS to you, but perhaps aren’t really necessary. Do you own a house? Do you have to own a house? Do you own a car? Is it newer? Do you have any debts? How simple are your finances? Are you starting to have doubts about the “prosperity” religion? If so, maybe this time in your life is a good one to read the Book of Luke and Matthew 5-7 again with new eyes.

4. You mentioned that bad things happen to you at night. This is not a trivial matter. Your night life (dreams, insomnia, fears, etc.) is a real part of your whole life, and has answers for you. Would you be comfortable telling us some stories about your night life?

You can do this, but it will take some serious letting go of fierce old musts, can’ts, and status symbols. I believe in you. Stick with us, Wendell.

*hugs*

Tom

[Anonymous]

It’s not easy to talk about, but I guess I can tell you a bit about my hatred for sleeping.

It all began when I was about 7 or 8 years old. Up until then, I never had any issues at night whatsoever. Anyway, I would go to sleep, but would have some terrifying dreams…I mean absolutely terrifying. They were frequently about doing terribly awful things that I didn’t even understand. I can’t really discuss them right now as I get exceptionally emotional just thinking about it, but suffice it to say I was incredibly scared. I have never been able to easily distinguish between my dreams and reality, and still can’t to this day, but I knew it was not possible for me to do those things that I was doing in my dreams.

Due to these dreams, I would have this incredible guilt for “sins” that I never committed. That part was tough enough to deal with, but what started happening when I was about 10 was way worse. I would be asleep, and be having one of my dreams, when suddenly I would wake up, but be completely unable to move…and I mean completely unable. I felt as though I was going to die from the fear of the dream and the evil feelings in my room.

I would be trying to control my body, but I was not able to do so. Just as soon as I felt like I could no longer breathe, I would hear something and then my head would start turning towards the door of my room. I absolutely could not control this movement at all. It was very slow, methodical, and scary. To make a long story short, there would be someone standing in my room…an exceptinoally evil person who would stand there and stare at me. I could not close my eyes or look away. Sometimes I would hear voices saying bad things, and I always assumed it was the devil, or one of his servants, but I have never been sure. I have no clue how long this would last, but I know for sure it was not a dream. I would try to pray, but it was too scary. It would eventually end, the person would leave, and I would just lie there shaking with fear until morning. I learned quickly that praying for these things to not happen seemed to make them occur more often, so I wouldn’t do it.

This happened somewhat regularly throughout my youth, and I tried to talk to my parents about it, but they simply did not believe me. I became terrified of my room and Mom and Dad ridiculed me for it. (I have never had a good relationship with my parents) My bishop told me I must not have repented for something I had done, but I knew he was wrong. When your parents and church leaders don’t believe you, it makes you question your worth in this world. My testimony of the gospel is based partially on this experience if that makes any sense. I became very depressed, withdrawn, and filled with anxiety.

Anyway, this still happens to me today, but I am more able to deal with it by realizing it will be temporary. I still don’t pray for it to stop, and I would never tell my church leaders. The feelings of fear, and my tearful response to it are still so bad that I don’t talk about it much, but I just refuse to sleep unless I absolutely have to do so. I never fall asleep before 3 and I get up no later than 5:30. This is not healthy, but I am 41 years old and terrified of something I still to this day do not understand. It had been happening with more frequency, but seems to have slowed down since I quit going to church. All I can say is that I am absolutely positive this is real and I am not some nutjob schizophrenic. It has happened, it does happen, and I know it will happen in the future.

[Anonymous]

Hello Wendell…..sending hugs your way! Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you need to see a doctor. I am not a doctor, but I am a mother, and if you were my husband or son I would take you to the doctor. You need a complete physical so that a cause for your issues can be determined and a treatment plan enacted. I am not saying that the things you fear are not real, but so far nothing has made physical contact with you, so if nothing else, you need to get some help with sleeping. God bless!

[Anonymous]

Hi Wendell…I’m sure many of us can relate to some or most of your issues. I’ll tell you that I am a physician (not a psychiatrist), and for about 5 years I was a drug and alcohol counselor. I only tell you this to let you know that I have met many like you, and I’m going to say some things that some here might disagree with. That’s Okay…it’s just my opinion and experience.

1) It sounds to me like you have clinical depression. Of course none of us armchair shrinks can give you a definitive diagnosis, but if you do, I believe appropriate treatment may help MANY of your other issues. I strongly suggest getting professional help. Everybody in your life will benefit with you getting well.

2) You are juggling WAY too many balls. It’s a common challenge in the church to push for perfectionism in the family…and it seems much of your guilt is in unrealistic expectations. And personally, I find guilt to be a horrible motivator. With a good therapist, I think you can prioritize your goals and acitvities to allow you to reduce the stress.

3) I agree that you probably are not in a good place to evaluate and make decisions about your marriage. However, I will also say that it is helpful to realize that divorce isn’t terminal…depression, chemical dependence, and suicide can be. This is where I tend to go against what many church leaders say…but you have to put yourself first. You’re no good to anybody else in the unhealthy state you are in. Again, work with a good therapist to get yourself back. I think the approach to work on the marriage must come after you get healthy.

4) The common advice in the church is to read scriptures, pray, and attend your meetings. If that works for you, great. I found that low level exercise, hiking, being in nature, was much more helpful for me to find “Spirit.” It was only after I de-junked my life that I could even begin to think about religion. But that might just be me.

Good luck, and I think you can benefit from advice that has been given here.

~Rix

[Anonymous]

I’m so glad, Wendell, that you wrote this down. And I’m so sorry that your attempts to share your experience have been so painfully repelled all your life. Not to tell you anything you don’t know, but to validate what you do know to your core, this is an extremely important matter in your life. Telling all you can about it and remembering all you can about it is an important way to peace. Again, I am deeply sorry that your wise attempts to do so have in the past been so roundly rebuffed or trivialized.

Of course it’s real. I don’t know the source of this trouble, but I believe it’s real. And somewhere deep inside of yourself is hidden the knowledge to be free of it. I hope that if you recall more about the bad things that happen at night, you will feel comfortable telling us some more stories about your night time horror.

I had a question about the sport activities in which your children excel, but which seem to demand almost (maybe I shouldn’t say almost) more than you have to give. Is it possible it might be a good idea to have a serious talk with them about the true and full cost of their sport? You have probably intentionally tried to wave away this concern for them always and pave the way for them to excel without concern about the cost. Maybe you have looked at it as a form of loving sacrifice. Can you tell us possibly more about your thoughts and beliefs about encouraging and supporting them in this sport?

*Huge long daddy hug with tears*

Tom

[Anonymous]

Quote:

This is my first post on this forum, and I am not writing it to complain – I really am in need of some help, and seemingly have nowhere else to turn. This is not easy for me to write…even in an anonymous forum such as this. I am very fragile emotionally right now so, please do not judge me harshly for how I might come across.

I am physically, spiritually, and emotionally exhausted. I have spent my entire 20 year marriage working 2 and often 3 jobs to feed my family. For the past 12 years, I have worked 2 full time jobs the entire time, and simply don’t know if I can do it much longer.

Sleep to me is not an enjoyable thing as bad things happen to me at night, but I literally sleep 2-3 hours per night max. My mind is not clear, I have been making some poor choices, and my marriage is HORRIBLE! Clearly I need a change, but have no clue how to do it. Every time I plan on cutting back at work, the car breaks down, the roof starts leaking, or something else comes up that makes working less impossible.

Hi Wendall. How are you? I am glad you let some of your feelings out. You sound exhausted, spent, overwhelmed, and discouraged. I remember feeling that way quite recently. I don’t know all the answers but I will give you some of my thoughts.

First of all, just breath in and out and give your mind some rest. Don’t try to solve all of these problems at once. You don’t have to. I think more than anything you need to learn how to think differently about everything that is happening in your life. And that is something that CAN be done inside yourself and it can help change the landscape of your experience. You are trying to keep all these balls in the air for fear that one might hit the ground. Well, would it be really that bad if one of them did? If all of them did? There is a lot of strength and wisdom in letting go. Maybe it is this kind of faith that will lead you to your next steps.

Quote:

I have completely quit going to church due to some silly notion that I need to stay away to lessen my stress level. Of course it hasn’t helped much, but going back seems like an impossibly difficult task right now. The church to me is little more than a place that makes me feel guilty for much of what I am doing, and I don’t really need that right now. I’m beat down enough.

Let’s talk about guilt for a minute. I don’t have much use for guilt unless I have a very good reason and a clear understanding that it comes from God. The scriptures say we should have “godly sorrow” for sin. I am not sure that is the same thing as what you are experiencing. If I might make a guess, I would say that you are stuck in a lot of shame based thinking and that is NEVER EVER from God. It isn’t part of the gospel of Jesus Christ and it doesn’t help make anyone a better person or help anyone solve any problem in front of them.

Sometimes I think religious families teach shame, either directly or unknowingly. I know I was raised with loads of shame and so was my DH. Hard stuff, shame. It imprisons us and we beat ourselves mercilessly for our mistakes and weakness.

Satan is the author of this kind of shame. He is the father of all lies and shame is certainly based in such. God doesn’t see you this way. I doubt greatly that the Saints see you as horribly as you are seeing yourself. Give yourself a gigantic break here! Maybe you needed a time out from church. Heck, I took a time out for a few months and would you believe God himself counseled me to? Is there something in scripture that says we can’t take some time to heal or refocus or just breath for a minute?

Banish these thoughts. Absolutely refuse to entertain this kind of thinking when you are evaluating yourself or your performance. Only permit yourself to use the list that accompanies the definition of Charity. You could use a nice big dose of a few of those. Now I am not saying to be dishonest with yourself or to blow sunshine. I am suggesting that dealing with truth works better when we evaluate it with love. If you aren’t happy with your decision to stay away from church, then course correct in overflowing self love and go back. Stay only for Sac mtg if that is all your brain can handle. Make it your widows mite and trust that God accepts it as much as the rich mans millions. And then forgive yourself for going against yourself when you were overwhelmed.

Quote:

I have 5 wonderful children. My oldest son just started college and I barely know him due to my work schedule. The other kids don’t know me very well either, and my wife and I have been fighting like crazy. We didn’t say one word to each other for 4 months, and just started talking again, but now we only yell at each other. This morning I yelled the F word at her as I was leaving for work. Not talking was way better. I have filled out divorce papers, but haven’t yet had the courage to submit them.

Give yourself permission to stop focusing at everything that isn’t working. Hand it to God. Let Him noodle on it for a moment. Open your mind to what you can do. Maybe make a decision (a simple and balanced one) that you will take some baby steps in a different direction. What if you wrote a quick note to each of your sweet kids. Tell them in five lines or less what you like about them or some reason you love them. Something like “you have beautiful eyes” or ” that joke you told at dinner made me laugh.” Leave it on their beds. Kiss the paper as you put it on the pillow. And then go to work and feel better. Maybe next week, can take two steps towards your kids or maybe three.

With regards to your conversations with your wife, I would say that maybe you two need to start over. Maybe you need a giant reset button that can help to diffuse all the resentments and hurts and move you to a place of problem solving, listening, and healing. Maybe your marriage can’t be saved, but there is no doubt in my mind that you both couldn’t leave your marriage whole and in peace if you chose to change your course. It takes no more energy to listen than it does to yell a cuss word…. or to try and understand a situation without judgement instead of ignoring a situation because something in our heads thinks its easier.

Quote:

I have tried counseling, medication, and lots of fasting and prayer, but nothing seems to help. I am literally at the end of my rope and don’t think I can do it much longer. The bishop has given up on me and I don’t blame him, but where else do I go? Anyway, I am writing this in the hope that somebody, anybody will have an answer or at least a suggestion of what I can do to improve my situation. Thank you in advance.

You are absolutely right. You can’t keep living like this. It is a one way ticket to a crash landing. I don’t know what your bishop is thinking, but I think you gave up on you.

Look. It is a lie that you can’t do anything. I remember in some of my darkest days, Heavenly Father not answering my prayers by solving things, but by teaching me to stand up and dust myself off and look a different direction. I didn’t want that answer. I wanted Him to change others ….. to stop all the pain! His healing touch came differently though. I am so grateful, now, that Father didn’t “fix” things for me because I learned so much more by attempting the journey. You need to stand up! You need to start trusting yourself and your intellect and your talent…. along with trusting God’s influence to make changes in your circumstances. You need to seek help from the right sources. I mean therapists or self help books or that inner voice inside of you that you quit listening to. I think you need to go out and pick some stones and THEN ask God to touch them! God will move mountains and part seas and help you find peace. But it is you that must change your focus and use what energy you have into gratitude, proactiveness, and self power. God will magnify your power with His.

Blessings to you my friend, as you love yourself to overflowing and as you learn that doing that will give you much more capacity to love others and to solve problems. I think all of us at one time or another has run faster than we had strength. You don’t have to anymore.

[Anonymous]

Get professional help no matter what it takes. Insist on it, and don’t let it drop.

I really don’t have more than that, but I have it in spades.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Get professional help no matter what it takes. Insist on it, and don’t let it drop.

I really don’t have more than that, but I have it in spades.

You are exactly right, and believe me, I have tried. It’s a very difficult thing to do for me to do. My anxiety and feelings of inadequacy/insecurity spike exceptionally high when calling to make an appointment. It may be hard to understand, but many of the issues I have are the very things that make it so incredibly difficult to do what I need to in order to get help. Just writing on here today was pretty darned tough, and calling a stranger to ask for help is doubly hard. I am going to do everything i can to force myself to call tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

[Anonymous]

Wendell, you can do it! Is there another person who could call for you as a back up plan?

There is something called sleep paralysis. I’m not saying that is what you have, but some of the symptoms are similar. I also have read other people described very, very similar experiences to what you have described. You are not alone! It isn’t just you.

I’m totally not a doctor of any kind, but you might be interested in this description of sleep paralysis on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I know what sleep deprivation can do to a person. It is not pretty and I know why it is used as a form of torture!

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Get professional help no matter what it takes. Insist on it, and don’t let it drop.

I really don’t have more than that, but I have it in spades.

I am glad Ray said that. I was thinking something similar. It is wonderful you are so dedicated to making your kids’ dreams of athletics a reality.

But seriously … they would really rather you were healthy and fully available to them as their dad, for a long long time. Ask them. Spend some of that time, energy and money getting solid medical help and getting healthy. Even if it cuts into their sports dreams. Your condition has to worry them, and I am sure they love you very much.

[Anonymous]

Wendell,

Welcome. Posting your thoughts for help from us here is a great start! Pat on the back for taking the effort to keep trying whatever you can think of… I think you’ll get support from everyone here who all go through something that brings us together.

Posting words is a great start…but nothing changes from just posting. You NEED to do something to change the situation. As lost as you may feel, you need to do something. That is faith…doing it even if you don’t want to or don’t think you can.

I would suggest:

1) Apologize to your wife. Regardless of what has happened, she doesn’t deserve to be talked to that way, and you can take responsibility for your actions and apologize. Nothing major, just say the words to her sincerely.

2) Talk to a doctor, or ask Rix where you go to get help with depression. It seems appearant to all of us that you should not put this off.

When you have done those two things, then pray for help on what the next 2 things should be. Ask your kids, bishop, work buddies…whoever you feel comfortable asking for what they see you should next look into. If you start feeling stubborn (I’ve tried this before, It won’t matter, I can’t afford to take off work to fix this, etc etc etc) just realize that pride must be shed so you can humble yourself and seek some peace and relief.

[Anonymous]

Dear Wendell,

You didn’t mention if your wife or children worked. The Church has this notion that men are to be the breadwinners and that women are totally responsible for keeping a clean home and caring for children. I think that marriage should be about sharing responsibilities. Most wives work outside of the home (or do in-home businesses) to supplement their families incomes. This gives Dads more time at home with the children and allows fathers to learn more homemaking skills such as cooking and laundry.

Good luck and God bless.

[Author]

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