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Well said H. I hear plenty of bishop related horror stories but I also know positive ones. sometimes the same guy can be a mixed bag. Not all black and white. Sorry kumo if I got you in trouble. And I liked your post personally.
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Kumahito wrote:Kipper, I’m not going to rise and take the bait of your
ad hominemattack. It actually gave me a bit of a laugh. Instead I’ll just note two things. .
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So, was that a “sharp witty response fueled unknowingly by confusion”?
Enjoy your faith crisis, Kipper. I really do hope you come out the other side with peace.
No kumahito it wasn’t bait it was substance and with a better delivery you may have found some of it useful. As Ray noted, it was delivered with the wrong tone and as I mentioned it won’t happen again. I noticed you didn’t acknowledge that. But then you have a great resume. I’m sure you have strong feelings about many things and aren’t afraid to say so which just appears to be more important than what you say. I have a feeling that if my delivery would have been smoother your reaction would have been the same. I’ll stand by my interpretation of your comments and yea, that was a sharp enough response. Congratulations.
I don’t even know what
ad hominemmeans but it probably isn’t important. I will however look up I Corinthians Chapter 8 and remember who suggested it. That last comment
“Enjoy your faith crisis…”was a pretty good jab, I don’t really need to know you from Adam to know about you. Obviously in my calling I wear white. But my blue and pink shirts are looking forward to some future date Knock it off, you two. I don’t want to have to shut down this thread, but we won’t put up with personal attacks back and forth between participants. Take a couple of deep breaths and clear your emotions. You’ve thrown your punches; now hug and make up. I don’t want to make you sit on a couch holding hands and singing Kumbaya to each other . . .
Old-Timer wrote:Knock it off, you two. I don’t want to have to shut down this thread, but we won’t put up with personal attacks back and forth between participants. Take a couple of deep breaths and clear your emotions. You’ve thrown your punches; now hug and make up.
I don’t want to make you sit on a couch holding hands and singing Kumbaya to each other . . .
What color shirt do we have to wear?
Ad hominem means to the man or person. An ad hominem argument is when it is directed personally. SamBee wrote:Ad hominem means to the man or person. An ad hominem argument is when it is directed personally.
Thanks
Not as bad as “reductio ad Hitlerum”, which translates into English as “the first one to mention the Nazis loses”! 😈 Kipper, I agree with you that there’s some real nonsense written about the church online. Some of it’s even written by people who were once members/are members, which makes it less excusable.
Kumahito, yes, I can back you up on some stupid statements being made about white shirts. I’ve heard it announced from the pulpit, and said to me personally.
Double post from another thread, but seemed more relevant here. My branch pres is a mixed bag. Some things he’s very blunt and seemingly rigid. But others not. There’s a semi active young adult who often is asked to pass sacrament and wears a striped shirt and no tie. The BP lets a single sister record her sons testimonies and (I was surprised at this next one) he told me at tithing settlement I was probably over-paying tithing (I’m an expat and he said he felt there was no need to pay tithing on cost of living and housing allowances, even though it’s salary reclassified for tax reasons for most expats). I didn’t argue. Sometimes I’m very willing to listen to my leaders. Ha… double standards I know.
Back to the OP, I would love to see new missionary guidelines that modernise the ‘uniform’ for Elders. The recently released one for sisters is excellent – modern, colourful, stylish yet smart. For me this should be coloured shirts for Elders.
Young Men going to professional jobs in the UK wear fitted suits with stylish striped/checked shirts and thin ties. They certainly don’t look like the guidelines for Elders that I received when I left 10 years ago with black/navy unfitted suits, 80’s silk ties and side parted hair. White shirts for Sundays/Zone Conferences is fine for me, but in general day to day missionary work it’s important that the Elders look fresh and modern.
Could anyone quote whatever manual that is being referred to earlier in this thread, please? I would really like to see where the manual says that it’s normal to wear white shirts but not mandatory… What about not wearing a white shirt when performing ordinances such as passing he sacrament? Any quotes?
Thanks a lot!
Handbook of Instructions 2 – p. 173 Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not all attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.
Pretty clear that the Pharisee’s are misguided in their indignation (as usual!)
I find the thought of Jesus returning dressed as a lawyer repugnant. Notice that the handbook statement EXPLICITLYallows jewelry to be worn by those who bless and pass the sacrament. :thumbup: It simply shouldn’t be so gaudy that it attracts attention and detracts from the spirit of the ordinance. How many local leaders understand and actually accept that? Not many – and the ones who reject it the most forcefully are the same ones who condemn the concept of “cafeteria Mormonism” and preach the 14 Fundamentals the most adamantly.:wtf: Oh, the irony.
:shh: The handbook still includes some hedges about the law, but most of the hedges I’ve observed have been planted and raised at the local level.
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