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Thankful wrote:
But I also think that ENTIRE RS Presidency were reformers
Thankful, I do agree with you. But the wonderful thing about Chieko is that she kept writing her books, which teach tremendous things and she kept traveling and speaking to sisters after the release. She continued to share those talents of hers with as many as she possibly could. I think Sister Jack and Sister Clyde were very effective during that time also. I believe that the whole Time Out For Women thing has sprung from the fact that the women of the church are hungry for effective women leadership to interact directly with them. I personally miss our very own RS curriculum and I know many other women have shared with me that they feel the same way.
Have loved reading this thread. That’s all 
Let me add to the mixed bag on Pres Packer. A good friend was greeting several apostles in their visit in the UK. Packer was the most senior. A local leader had asked a procedural question, and one of the more junior apostles was about to give an answer when Pres Packer stopped him and cautioned him that answering that kind of question given their position often resulted in unintended consequences because members took what they said casually too much to heart and would turn an off hand remark into a new rule forever. This from the author of The Unwritten Order! I also heard from E Oaks that Pres Packer is the one who bought the Q12 iPads to use for their scriptures and to access the LDS apps.
Oaks is also quite interesting. He loves a white shirt and pushes for outward obedience but he is also a strong advocate of equal pay and rights for women. He also did a lot behind the scenes at BYU to reduce how oppressive and right wing the environment was.
E Bednar infamously promoted passive aggressive behavior and judgment about something as trivial as earrings and yet he doesn’t try to shackle women in the home, recognizing his mother as a strong woman and financial contributor.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Let me add to the mixed bag on Pres Packer. A good friend was greeting several apostles in their visit in the UK. Packer was the most senior. A local leader had asked a procedural question, and one of the more junior apostles was about to give an answer when Pres Packer stopped him and cautioned him that answering that kind of question given their position often resulted in unintended consequences because members took what they said casually too much to heart and would turn an off hand remark into a new rule forever. This from the author of The Unwritten Order!
Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present? Especially given his Unwritten order speech?
Quote:Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present?
Not logically, since he also didn’t try to answer the question. That says a lot about what he meant.
I had a Bishop who shared with me part of the conversation he had with the Stake President when he was called as Bishop. He asked the SP what he should do as the Bishop. The SP responded:
Quote:“Make sure your ward holds Sacrament Meeting every week. Everything else is up to you.”
Another time, the Bishop asked about a particular question a member had asked. The SP said:
Quote:“I’m not answering that for you. You’re that member’s Bishop, and you know that member better than I do.”
Pres. Packer had taught those principles, and the SP was passing it on to the Bishop.
Quote:Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present? Especially given his Unwritten order speech?
I could argue lots of things about Pres. Packer. He’s an odd duck for sure. The funeral stuff is incredibly weird. But Ray’s point is valid that he not only instructed the other apostle not to answer but he didn’t answer it either.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present? Especially given his Unwritten order speech?
I could argue lots of things about Pres. Packer. He’s an odd duck for sure. The funeral stuff is incredibly weird. But Ray’s point is valid that he not only instructed the other apostle not to answer but he didn’t answer it either.
Maybe he learned something from his Unwritten Order speech.
SilentDawning wrote:hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present? Especially given his Unwritten order speech?
I could argue lots of things about Pres. Packer. He’s an odd duck for sure. The funeral stuff is incredibly weird. But Ray’s point is valid that he not only instructed the other apostle not to answer but he didn’t answer it either.
Maybe he learned something from his Unwritten Order speech.
The sad thing is that even if they don’t say something it can be attributed to them – like the generals in heaven thing. I do think it’s possible Packer or someone else said that, probably off hand since there is no record of it, but they eventually had to formally deny it in order to quell it – and even that hasn’t worked.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:Couldn’t you argue that he was simply asserting himself as the most senior apostle present? Especially given his Unwritten order speech?
I could argue lots of things about Pres. Packer. He’s an odd duck for sure. The funeral stuff is incredibly weird. But Ray’s point is valid that he not only instructed the other apostle not to answer but he didn’t answer it either.
I was interested to read (in “On the Road with Joseph Smith”) that Richard Bushman sought a blessing from Boyd K. Packer before beginning work on Rough Stone Rolling.
Just for completeness for anyone reading this thread in the future… On Own Now wrote:One I’m optimistic about is Todd Christofferson.
Based on a couple of recent sermons, I’ve got to downgrade EC. I no longer think of him as a ‘reformer’. Not saying he couldn’t be. Not saying he’s a hardliner. But I can’t classify him as a reformer at present, in spite of my earlier optimism. See my concerns about his most recent conference talk:http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4682 Caussée may never get to a position of leadership to do anything about it. But I liked the tone of his talk in Priesthood session. He may be one to watch in the future. More Europeans please And another Asian GA too. Our last one was amazing (Sister Okazaki). Eastern influence will hopefully bring a more embracing attitude to myths as teaching tools (rather than the importance of literal history) and embracing nuance and adaptation.
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