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It gives me great comfort to hear other people are asking the same questions as I am right now. I have stripped myself down to my core beliefs. One of the core beliefs that I have, probably the chief cornerstone of my faith, if you will, is that there is a power/force greater than myself. Some would call this the Alcoholics Anonymous God. I don’t know what form God has, but the most evidence that I have of God’s existence is the life force that animates all of us. God gives us consciousness. I may be tempted to say God is the energy streaming throughout the universe that organizes itself into matter and breathes life into living creatures, but in my heart, I feel it is much more than that. God is that power that gives us intelligence to think critically, and examine the world we live in. God gives us awareness and perception of our surroundings, that sense that tells me that “I think, therefore I am.” Beyond that, I let the AA God take over in everyone else’s minds-a God of their own understanding. If a person wants to believe that God is in the form of a man, then I have no problem with that. I have moved past that about the same time that I considered the agnostic view that perhaps God just doesn’t care about the people on this Earth. As I open myself up to further investigation, I notice that I put far less parameters on God, and allow God more freedom to move throughout my life and work to my advantage. The second core belief that I have is that it is far better for us to make the world a better place by helping others and doing good than by serving ourselves and harming others. I believe that we all should take the initiative, whether we believe in God or not, to try and make this world a better place for our having been here. Apart from those 2 core principles, I don’t profess to know much, but I do know how I was raised, and I am not certain that it was as eternally correct as the church would like to believe it was. Outside of those principles, I don’t think much else in this world really matters. It is important for me to believe in something more than myself, and to live my life the best way I know how so that when I leave it, people will have reason to mourn my death instead of having reason to pee upon my grave. From this point where I am at, I leave it up to God, or the Holy Ghost, or whatever to guide me where I should go.
Thanks to Gail for posting such a pertinent question. I hope you know you aren’t alone in trying to define who God is.
For me: God is The Highest, the Source, the Father, the Mother, the All, the Love, the Light.
Near Death Experiences reveal God as reliably and simply as any source.
Hopefully with love,
Tom
I find it interesting that near death experiences seem to confirm the religious traditions that the near dead come from. I have heard may LDS near death experiences that sound very comforting. I have hear Christian near death experiences that do not contradict the LDS ones yet are not as specific in the LDS details. As you get away from Christians near death experiences tend to include preparation for reincarnation. Two factors come to mind about near death experiences that make it hard to get a clear picture unless you read dozens (hundreds) with a wide variety: 1. They are experienced or remembered with motifs and imagery that draw from people’s culture.
2. They are related using language and imagery that is thought to be meaningful to the audience.
In my experience, the LDS ones are not really very LDS in any special way, and LDS experiencers come out as rather odd ducks among the LDS people. Their fellow LDS adherents in Fowler Stage 2 and 3, of course, make parallels that strengthen their own security in their chosen paradigm. These include validations of pre-earth existence, family spirits, a “personal” “Father” with a “body”, and important “work” proceeding on the other side. All those are smugly satisfying to adherents who want validation and nothing else.
In my experience, there are certain unifying themes that come through unmistakeably. These include the nature and meaning of good and evil, the nature of a life satisfyingly spent, the way of life and of hell (faith/confidence and despair), the innocence of God, the purity of God, the rapture of God, the accessibility of God, the mercy of God, the absence of legalism, the good cheer (humor) of God and all his holy angels, and on and on.
To me it is all one great whole.
Gail wrote:For me I think I am looking for what can be questioned and still consider myself within the umbrella of a believing LDS.
Ah, yes, I see. No worries, I completely understand this point of view. I have certainly been there myself. For me, at some point the narrow carving out just went away. Some will view me as an apostate, and others as an apologist. Some will see me as a threat to their community, and others will see me as building it up. I will always be outside the umbrella according to the definition of some people. But for others, who believe there is room for everyone, I will remain comfortably inside.At some point (after I renewed my temple recommend last time) I started worrying less about justifying my beliefs and whether or not they could still be considered Mormon, and started focusing on increasing my spirituality. I decided, at some point, that I would remain Mormon, so I live within the boundaries set, and focus on changing myself in the best way I know how, whether or not it fits within someone’s prescribed umbrella.
Gail wrote:This whole concept may be a silly game, but I believe this article was presented in this type of spirit. Helping those srtuggling to sort out who they are as Mormons. Therefore I stand by the definition the article put forth as legitimate and very useful within the LDS world or at least this corner of the LDS world, even though it may not withstand the strict academic standers of Wikipedia.
No, it’s definitely not a silly game, and I see where you’re coming from. Sometimes when you’ve been playing the faith crisis game for a while you start to forget what it’s like to be in the struggle. If it works for you, that’s great. My point was to say (see my other posthereEuhemerus, Thank you for all your post, and your last one in particular. I must admit it’s usefulness is limited. After many years utilizing Don’s definition or something similar some times it seems to be limited to banging my head against a brick wall of cultural beliefs.
When Don says it can be used for a BS detector I have been doing this since before my mission and it gets tiresome when it seems that a good 70% of what I heard in church was BS. For many years I enjoyed gospels principals much more than gospel doctrine because the % BS was lower. When I starting viewing much of what I heard in General conference as BS it got more difficult to enjoy church at all. When I started see the BS as being destructive to some groups of members it made me nothing but angry for a long time. I am beyond the anger, but I really struggle with what use is church when they spend most of the time talking about selections that I do not agree or can rebut without causing a seen, or so narrowly selected portions of our history that it loses all usefulness.
Gail wrote:At this point I have days where I can accept within myself the idea that it is all hog wash and embrace the title apostate
Hey, wait! What about the title Friendly Heretic? I was in testimony lala land long ago, and I don’t plan on apostatizing or going anywhere. It’s my church too, you know. I am here to stay. Excommunication couldn’t tear me away. It’s my tribe.
Gail wrote:Thank you for all your post, and your last one in particular. I must admit it’s usefulness is limited. After many years utilizing Don’s definition or something similar some times it seems to be limited to banging my head against a brick wall of cultural beliefs.
Yep, I hear you.Gail wrote:When Don says it can be used for a BS detector I have been doing this since before my mission and it gets tiresome when it seems that a good 70% of what I heard in church was BS. For many years I enjoyed gospels principals much more than gospel doctrine because the % BS was lower. When I starting viewing much of what I heard in General conference as BS it got more difficult to enjoy church at all. When I started see the BS as being destructive to some groups of members it made me nothing but angry for a long time. I am beyond the anger, but I really struggle with what use is church when they spend most of the time talking about selections that I do not agree or can rebut without causing a seen, or so narrowly selected portions of our history that it loses all usefulness.
Yes. I think it is important to make distinctions like the one Don is making, and I see it has utility in the stages of faith as one tries to carve out a niche in one’s community. As you so eloquently point out, however, it gets tiresome to always be splitting hairs to make things work. I only recently have shifted away from this type of activity (within the last 6 months), and have focused more on trying to make myself a better person. My focus switched from the church/group I’m in, toward a more introspective look at myself. This may or may not be a better approach, but it seems to be working for me. Good luck!Euhemerus, Quote:“I only recently have shifted away from this type of activity (within the last 6 months), and have focused more on trying to make myself a better person. My focus switched from the church/group I’m in, toward a more introspective look at myself. This may or may not be a better approach, but it seems to be working for me. Good luck!”
I totally agree with what you are saying. I believe this should be the most important part of religious life. I guess where I am coming from is I am having a really hard time see how going to church does anything to help in becoming a better person. There was a time when it really acted against me becoming a better person. I do not believe that this is the case now, but I still struggle with the utility of activity. It sounds like you have figured it out at least for yourself. Can you share?
Gail wrote:There was a time when it really acted against me becoming a better person. I do not believe that this is the case now, but I still struggle with the utility of activity. It sounds like you have figured it out at least for yourself. Can you share?
I understand completely. Strong organizations like the church do tend to act against you as long as you allow it to dictate your life. For me, the secret is to recognize that I am the one in charge of my spirituality, and I’ll take what I want from my community, and leave the rest. Hopefully, this allows me to remain a member (which it does for me). However, the honest truth, is that for me, I had to totally deconstruct my life and be willing to give up my group if I needed to. I’m not saying anyone else needs to do this, but for me, it was imperative.I wrote a post at MormonMatters a while back in which I give an approach (my approach) to dealing with things. You can find it
hereLet me also say that the last six months have taken me on a roller-coaster. I considered myself resolved (figured it out) in my faith about 6 months ago. However, I have learned that it is incorrect to think of it as a destination. Hence, to say I have “figured it out” is to say I’ve arrived. But the truth is, it’s an ongoing struggle (as life tends to be).
Right now, it’s particularly challenging as we just moved to a new ward and I don’t care for it much. My recent ward was in CA, and felt more Christ-centered. Here it feels like we spend each class justifying to each other why we’re in the “one true church.” I try to put it in perspective though, and focus on my own spirituality. Part of that is reading the books I enjoy, part of it is serving others (which the church allows me to do quite nicely), part of it is seeing people as imperfect human beings trying to do the best they can. And a huge part of it is removing unrealistic expectations.
Hope something in there helps. It is a very individualistic endeavor, so I don’t pretend that my method works for everyone. But it is healthy for me. Incidentally, I will say that many of the techniques found in a cognitive behavioral therapy class would be immensely helpful for struggling Mormons.
Euhemerus, This all makes since, but I still do not see how church attendance is a benifit. If spiritual uplift comes from other sources, and I am not finding that when I attend, you can serve in or out of the church whether you go on Sunday or not. What do you get out of church attendance? When I have time I enjoy going to see my ward family, but I never stay for the whole block it feels so counter productive. I attended for a long time after I decided that It could be on my terms, but finally it has started feeling that I can do better things with my time. I guess it would be nice for my parents if I could tell them I was active again, but how does it help spiritually when they interpret every thing in such a narrow way that it feels untrue?
Church allows me to serve others who are different than I am in a community that I have embraced as my own. I don’t go to church for my own edification. I go to lose myself in the service of others who need someone to love them. I go to try to become the example of what I hope we all are striving to become. I go to love those whom I wouldn’t love naturally. I need more than just church to do all that, but I need church to do it fully. People need me and my smile and my unique views and the knowledge I give them that they are OK in their own struggles, so I go. I sometimes am the voice they can’t express, so I go. I often am the hug they never get from anyone else, so I go.
Ironically, when I’m not stressed out about insisting that others teach and help me, I nearly always am taught and helped the most. When I’m not insisting that others give me the Spirit, I usually feel it the most strongly. When I’m not insisting that others understand everything about me and my persepctive, I nearly always understand them and their perspectives better. When it no longer is all about me, I grow the most.
So I go.
Ray, This is a good answer. I believe this is true religion. Why is the type of service you are talking about more possible at the Mormon church than anywhere else? I strive for this everywhere I go: at work, with my friends, when I serve in the community, even the people I know that work at the library or the gas stations I frequent. I have seen many great examples of this serve in our church, but I have seen just as much out of it even from people that are not apart of any church.
Quote:Why is the type of service you are talking about more possible at the Mormon church than anywhere else?
It’s not.
However, within Mormonism it’s interwoven into the fabric of how we view (or should view) all who have lived throughout history in a way that is different than any other Christian religion – and that’s important to me.
Even if that wasn’t the case, it’s still “my people” – and that’s important to me, but the eternal perspective that ALL who ever have lived are brothers and sisters, children of God, capable of becoming everything I’m capable of becoming, equals regardless of mortal circumstances, etc. is the underlying foundation for me. I really do LOVE pure Mormon cosmology / theology, so I worship within that community, as flawed as it might be in practical terms “on the ground” where I live.
Ray, Quote:“However, within Mormonism it’s interwoven into the fabric of how we view (or should view) all who have lived throughout history in a way that is different than any other Christian religion – and that’s important to me.”
I am not sure I fully understand this statement. I agree that it is at the center of our faith and our world view. Are you saying this and that this is different than every other faith? I would disagree with this.
I can completely can relate with the Mormon people being my people. This is why I am asking these questions.
Over the last few years I have felt like a freak among my people.
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