Who is safe to talk to?

[Anonymous]

Life_Journey_of_Matt wrote:

DW replied with something like, “No, he has just reached a point where he is compelled to be honest and true with himself as well as his church leadership about uncertainties relating to the accepted nature of God and His church.”

I wish my wife could phrase it so. She has said stuff like, “He believes the BOM is made up and that the church is false.” And then she doesn’t quite understand when I take offense. We have agreed that when anyone asks about my beliefs, she will redirect them to me.

[Anonymous]

LJofM, I don’t think what you wrote is different, necessarily, than what others have written. I think, at the heart of it all, everyone is saying that someone shouldn’t share with anyone else with the idea or assumption that the other person will understand – and that there are risks with sharing, especially in the heat of emotion or before the person is comfortable sharing in a positive and not a negative way.

For example, your wife’s phrasing is a positive one, at its core (in both the wording and the presentation), and she shared it with someone who asked out of genuine concern with whom she apparently has a good relationship. Contrast that with Roy’s wife’s phrasing, and the difference is stark – again, in wording and tone.

I can say lots of things without negative effect that others couldn’t say, largely because I have learned over nearly 40 years how to do so in a way that is absolutely non-threatening. For example, if I was to address the quote about Joseph Smith being second to Jesus in terms of impact on humanity, I could say that love Joseph and understand such a statement in a eulogy by a grieving friend and in the context of restoring sealing ordinances for the dead, but I also could add that I look at Abraham, Moses, the apostle, Paul, etc. as people who, thus far, have had a broader impact on the living than Joseph did. I also could say that I know how others can hear that quote and think we worship Joseph, so I personally don’t use it outside of the internal discussions with other members when talking about the restoration of temple ordinances.

I’ve said pretty much that in meetings, and people have understood and not objected – but it has been because they know me and aren’t threatened by the way I say things. Again, I’ve spent decades refining how I talk about things, so I have an advantage that will come to many here only by “enduring to the end”, if you will.

[Anonymous]

Let me provide a specific example:

I was in a small group setting some time ago, and I ended up talking with a local leader and a couple who had served in many local leadership callings in their lives – and had participated in the Nauvoo pageant at one point. Every person in that group was a fully active, dedicated, long-time, leadership-level, believing member of the LDS Church. To the best of my memory:

At one point, one of the women mentioned that she had a son who simply couldn’t accept polygamy – and he also said, “Mom, Brigham Young was a racist!” She mentioned that she has never struggled with polygamy and made a joke about it that I can’t remember accurately. However, she said she had never been able to understand or accept the Priesthood Ban and was overjoyed when it was lifted. The local leader said, “Your son isn’t the first person to struggle with polygamy. I know I could never live it.” I told her, “Brigham Young was racist, but that doesn’t mean automatically that he wasn’t a prophet. All of the prophets who have lived have believed, taught or done something we don’t accept.”

The conversation continued normally after that, and it didn’t come up again in any conversation I had with any of them afterward. I certainly wouldn’t have said what I did in a lot of different settings, and neither would the others who commented, even though there was nothing wrong with anything that was said in that conversation. The setting was just as important (and, really, even more important) than the words themselves.

[Anonymous]

ReallyWantToStay wrote:

Thanks everyone! I can see that StayLDS really is a community or a network of non-judgmental friends.

Its difficult to find time to peruse the boards (small children at home and working p/t) but I think I’m gonna have to make time. I see that the general consensus is NOBODY is safe to talk to. I do feel safe talking to my husband. He has had to put up with a lot of unsorted feelings and emotions from me. But he has been really patient, while he waited for me to come around. He has also been really open about it all, which I think has helped me. I don’t wonder where he is on the spectrum of belief and if I do wonder I will ask him and he’ll always tell me. I should let him know that I appreciate that.

Thanks again guys!

First, I have to say that if my wife had half as much understanding and respect for my intellectual path of questioning as you do with your husband I would be much less stressed and much more at peace. I am not, and it’s not easy.

I’m not sure I agree 100% with “…don’t talk to anyone at church…” and “…nobody is safe to talk to…” I have had some talks with my bishop and another leader and what I learned is I am not going to hear what I want to hear. They are not going to understand and agree with my views. Sometimes I might hear “that’s a good question” but that’s about it. They will almost always finish up the meeting with a summary that has half meaning and half nothing for me. Yes it was frustrating but what I learned is love is blinding. That includes love for the church. I still have my calling in YM, I still have my TR and I get compliments on my leadership and lessons. On the flip side that could also mean anger is blinding, and I am not going to let myself fall into that trap no matter what I hear. not saying some of those things didn’t hurt but that’s why I am here on this board. I also talked to the same leader another time with a different approach I sort of learned here, more with love for the person and his opinion before I even started. Almost as if I were the counselor for him and got a very different and understanding response. I made me tear up and was very liberating at the time. The point is somebody needs to know what you are going thru, you just need to pick the person(s) carefully and make your approach neutral or take the high ground. And don’t try to lay it all out. You will find a brick wall. OK, maybe that won’t work for everyone but I believe that if no one at church has a small idea of what you are feeling inside it would be like being at work or school and hiding the fact that you are Mormon. That’s just uncomfortable and un-true. Here on this board (and a few other places) is where I get validation by finding out I am not alone. That, although not lasting, has been a stress relief and peaceful.

[Anonymous]

I understand what you’re saying Kipper and I don’t disagree. I think what I, and perhaps others (I won’t speak for them), are trying to say is that while there are actually people out there who might listen and try to understand, the vast majority won’t and will instead sit in judgement. The problem is that it is so hard to figure out who it is safe to talk to, some seem trustworthy and aren’t. Also, as you allude to, it does matter what is shared – questioning whether JS or TSM are prophets in SS is much different than questioning horses in the BoM to someone in the privacy of your home.

I have had good discussions with my SP, initiated by me, and with the HPGL, initiated by him (I think as part of a “Rescue”). In both of these cases I spoke as a doubting inactive member and shared relatively little (mostly about prayer and personal revelation). I had no desire to be active at the time and didn’t really care what they thought. In fact my discussion with the SP was a follow up to a discussion about name removal. While these weren’t bad experiences, they were very similar to what you describe and the did little or nothing in advancing me spiritually or returning to church – but that wasn’t a goal for me then (it also has never been my goal to “convert” anyone to my point of view, nor to argue my points). Like you, talking to my spouse isn’t an option, and I do believe it would be helpful to have someone who will listen. I adopted the “don’t talk to anyone” policy because it protects me and my family. Still, it’s not an absolute policy. I will still talk to certain individuals in whom I have some level of trust about some things – but I will not in private or public discuss anywhere near the full extent of my views and I believe this is wise counsel. That’s really what I meant earlier, and I think that’s really the majority opinion.

All of that said, it appears you have a fairly understanding sort of bishop. I’m not sure what you shared or under what circumstances, but reading other threads on this forum would lead me to believe that many in your position would not still hold such a calling or a TR.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I understand what you’re saying Kipper and I don’t disagree. I think what I, and perhaps others (I won’t speak for them), are trying to say is that while there are actually people out there who might listen and try to understand, the vast majority won’t and will instead sit in judgement. The problem is that it is so hard to figure out who it is safe to talk to, some seem trustworthy and aren’t. Also, as you allude to, it does matter what is shared – questioning whether JS or TSM are prophets in SS is much different than questioning horses in the BoM to someone in the privacy of your home.

Same here DJ, I don’t totally disagree with you all. Fact is, I am definitely quieter since I had a couple experiences in SS that made me realize the majority do not want to listen and understand. People just love to nod their heads in synchronization to just about anything. While it’s hard to figure who to talk to it’s easy to know who not to talk to but I am always searching and sometimes reach out. I am not real thick skinned and I’m OK with that and I am also not afraid to be corrected or enlightened in a respectful way.

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