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Yes I am struggling with the politics of the day . I have been praying who I will vote for if Trump & Hillary are the nominees . I do not agree with either so I guess it will be the least of the two evils !! This is difficult for me I have never not voted in a presidential election . I know the church does not take a political stand and I think that is good however the majority of members gravitate toward the Republican party . I can also see the value of the Democratic party and to let free agency play out perhaps as Heavenly father wanted. These two candidates really go against my values has anyone else got a different perspective ?? Moderator note: I think this discussion is fine in that I think many (members and non-members) do struggle with this, but let’s be careful to not let the discussion become a bashing of any one candidate or party. There are other forums on which Latter-day Saints can discuss their political views. Our mission is to help people StayLDS. I too am very troubled at what it looks like the choices may be come November. I need to check if barf bags are allowed in voting booths. It isn’t final yet (don’t take that as me lining up with Mitt). I am glad that we do have some checks and balances in our government that will help moderate those more on the extremes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Politics is as crazy as religion, isn’t it? i remember being on my mission and eating a burrito after zone conference with a bunch of missionaries and some guy in the restaurant came up and started yelling about how bad mormons were and how we all needed to go to hell and how stupid it is to have a golden bible…and the restaurant owner came out and told him to leave us alone, and then in a loud voice and a smile told all the patrons in his restaurant
Quote:There are 3 topics that always lead to arguments….
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. Sex
We don’t talk about those here in my place!
Most people snickered and laughed and I returned to eating my burrito.
This political season sure gives my family things to talk about, and SNL things to write skits about.
I have been in favor of Rubio since the start but don’t think he has enough backing to have a realistic shot.
I voted for Obama in 2008 and Mitt in 2012.
I hate Hillary Clinton and won’t vote for her. I don’t like Sanders socialism ideas.
I took an online quiz (
http://www.isidewith.comhttp://www.isidewith.com” class=”bbcode_url”> I guess for now, I vote Rubio until he drops out. Then…I don’t know…maybe I don’t vote.
I will share one thing…I don’t really think any of them make a huge difference for the country. One head of state can only do so much. So…ultimately…I’m not sure it matters other than having a voice to share on some ideals and viewpoints that can shape lawmakers views…not the individual themself.
My daughter is worried the country is going to hell in a handbasket. I just think it is politics as usual.
I remember as a youth thinking the ERA and immigration was going to be the end of the nation. Fast forward 30+ years and I am nearly 180 degrees on both of those issues. I do think this country has made it through slavery. Having a wacko or idiot in the White House has not been the death of the country. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just keep telling myself the field isn’t set yet and a lot can happen over the next 8 months. I don’t think God will answer prayers about for a variety of reasons – not the least of which are that He doesn’t care and he wants us to decide most things for ourselves.
My only comment is: this is a very interesting & scary time. I have never seen such anger in an election.
And a complete lack of tolerance & respect.
And no plan or strategy to get us out of this current mess.
I’m done.
I think every year lots of people complain that there isn’t anyone decent running for president. I’m not saying they’re wrong 
reallyfeeling it. I’m not sure if it’s an indication that I’ve reached zen master levels of being jaded or whether this time truly is somehow different. Minyan Man wrote:I have never seen such anger in an election.
And a complete lack of tolerance & respect.
And no plan or strategy to get us out of this current mess.
Yeah. I see it as something that has built up over time, again I’m not sure if it’s a growing awareness or a growing trend.
Looking only at the votes for the two major candidates, numbers rounded:
2012: The popular vote split 52%/48%.
2008: The popular vote split 54%/46%
2004: The popular vote split 51%/49%.
2000: The popular vote split 49%/51%. And the guy that won the popular vote lost the election.
1996: The popular vote split 55%/45%.
1992: The popular vote split 53%/47%.
1988: The popular vote split 54%/46%.
1988: The popular vote split 59%/41%.
I could keep going, I won’t. You have to go all the way back to Nixon to find someone that got at least 60% of the popular vote. And Nixon was the one that got it.
What’s the takeaway? Each presidential year it feels like the USA splits 50/50, the country is divided. After the dust settles people aren’t really in the mood to reach across aisles, the divisions deepen. I’ve got friends that blame every little thing that’s wrong with the world on Obama and I’ve got friends that blame every little thing that was wrong with the world on Bush. Sure those are the loudest voices, likely the minority, but it shows the depth of the division. If you’re looking for examples of black and white thinking look no further than politics.
Will Trump get things done? Maybe… provided it suits Trump. I just can’t imagine the guy as a “leader of the free world.” Would he engage in his childish behavior on the world stage? Get in a manhood measuring contest with Putin? Criticize Merkle because she isn’t attractive enough for him? Boycott a few world summits because he feels threatened? Spark off a war? I try to be apolitical, if Trump is your guy we can still be friends.
Heber13 wrote:I will share one thing…I don’t really think any of them make a huge difference for the country. One head of state can only do so much. So…ultimately…I’m not sure it matters other than having a voice to share on some ideals and viewpoints that can shape lawmakers views…not the individual themself.
I feel this way too but for the first time I find myself wondering. One guy that loves the spotlight and loves the conflict could set a bad tone for a nation.
nibbler wrote:This year I’m voting Turd Sandwich.
😆 In a lot of ways, I would say the founding fathers set things up pretty well to allow for lots of fighting and positioning of factions…as long as no one faction got all the power. Checks and balances. When Democrats win, we aren’t happy so it is more likely the Republicans will get a change vote. And vice versa.
Politics and religion are so much about beliefs and feelings…it just goes back and forth for people that want to argue…and then there is a great number that just sit it out because it seems like wasted energy. In both politics and religion.
In church, it gives us something to do to serve others and learn and think about moral behaviors and ideals.
IN politics, it gives news something to talk about and people to debate issues like legalizing marijuana or other things. It creates talk. I don’t know if I really care who wins, the nation will go forward. But it allows me to decide what I believe and by stating who I vote for, I take a position.
Another thing I’ll often hear every 4 years is something along the lines of “The people voting for the other person area all idiots.” People have the tendency to question the intelligence of the people on the other side of the fence. You know, doing the onething that’s sure to win people over to the other side. 
I always try to catch myself when I start having those thoughts. It was a little harder to quiet those inner voices this year
:angel: but I believe it’s an important place to arrive at.I am a social studies / history teacher by inclination and training. Trump scares me more than any well-supported candidate in my lifetime. His rally in Florida yesterday was deeply disturbing and frightening. Hitler level disturbing, and I swore a while ago I would not go there. I will not vote for him no matter who the opposing candidate is – and I will vote for that candidate no matter who s/he is.
Cruz is almost as bad. He is a religious fanatic who would love to establish a Christian version of Sharia law that if he could.
I have voted for candidates from each party in my lifetime, but, the way things look now, I probably will end up voting for the Democratic nominee this time – unless there is a massive backlash at the Republican nominating convention.
You are not alone – both on trying to bite your tongue and your basic comments. I used to be a staunch Republican, but I have moved leftward on MANY issues. There are still things like being fiscally conservative (balanced budget – ish). But even back years ago, I was the ones telling my very conservative friends that Obama was not the anti-Christ and to calm down a bit. But l am quite scared of the 2 republican front runners – for much the same reasons you mention.
I find that if you pull things back far enough then there is usually room for more understanding. Heber13 wrote:I don’t like Sanders socialism ideas.
My general understanding is that Sanders pet issue is financial inequality. He is proposing to raise the federal minimum wage. I think that most reasonable people can agree that there is wisdom in having a minimum wage. When these types of reforms got started big businesses were taking advantage of the working poor that had no options. They had chances to make better working conditions and choose to line their pockets instead. For this reason I am glad that the government steps in and tells businesses that it has to treat their workers more fairly.
What is more open to debate is how far and how fast to raise the min. wage. But once we have established that we have some common ground I hope the debate is more productive.
Sanders also proposes free college education. I like that at the core of this proposal is that young people are given opportunities based upon their drive and their talent – not their ability to pay. However, this proposal would be very expensive and how to pay for it can get controversial. We could also point out that grants and subsidized student loans go a long way towards putting a college education within the reach of many.
Once again – hopefully we can at least find some common ground in principle if not in practice/policy.
Heber13 wrote:IN politics, it gives news something to talk about and people to debate issues like legalizing marijuana or other things.
I do not think that I know enough about this issue. I do not want stoners getting high instead of moving on and getting ahead in their lives. OTOH, I completely understand that there can be medical benefits for individuals with a variety of health conditions. If marijuana helps them maintain a better quality of life then I would like for them to have that option. As far as recreational use, it gets more complicated. We allow recreational use of cigarettes and alcohol even though we know their dangers. Where do we draw the line?
LookingHard wrote:There are still things like being fiscally conservative (balanced budget – ish).
I agree and I think that most people agree. To spend more than one makes is not sustainable over the long haul. What gets much more contentious is what to cut. What must become the priority among a sea of good and important things. (There are some projects that seem to be pork barrel spending that is just plain greedy and wrong. I still believe that most of government spending actually does do good things for people.)
I cherry picked these three comments to help show that most people can have some common ground if we pull back far enough and look at some basic principles. I am not really interested in debating any of these points.
Quote:Ray wrote:
Trump scares me more than any well-supported candidate in my lifetime. His rally in Florida yesterday was deeply disturbing and frightening. Hitler level disturbing, and I swore a while ago I would not go there. I will not vote for him no matter who the opposing candidate is – and I will vote for that candidate no matter who s/he is.
Cruz is almost as bad. He is a religious fanatic who would love to establish a Christian version of Sharia law that if he could.
I have voted for candidates from each party in my lifetime, but, the way things look now, I probably will end up voting for the Democratic nominee this time – unless there is a massive backlash at the Republican nominating convention
Yes. Yes. And Yes.
I never thought I would consider Hillary. She is someone I have no respect for. And yet, compared to Trump and Cruz, I am willing to consider her. She would be the lesser of the three evils.
John Kisich is someone I would really like to see pick up some traction.
“Hitler level” seems like a stretch to me on Trump. But certainly Trump scared enough people and Cruz and Rubio aren’t strong enough to take him that people had to get Romney involved. That says a lot of things. I would vote Trump over Hillary, but will not vote for either. Roy, I agree with you on min wage and the place government has to help businesses play on fair grounds, to a limit. College tuition should not be paid for, imo. Cost would be WAY too high and not reap the benefits wanted. Too many in society would take advantage of it, especially those that would be the poor performers in the work place.
Marijuana is not a big issue. I saw it become law in Colorado and it didn’t really impact anything.
nibbler wrote:The people voting for the other person area all idiots.
ya…stage 3 thinking politics, huh? It just gets so inflammatory. I think some people like that stimulation.
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