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As I’ve been reading about various unique communities over the years, I’ve often wondered “Why, in modern times, would a person want to belong to a community?”. I have found that in Mormonism, I had to give up a lot of things that I found, later in life, would have brought me much happiness and peace during my younger years.
Communities often impose emotional hardship on people, such as the shaming the Amish, the ostracization you feel in the church (I have felt it). They often demand large sacrifices and can make you feel boxed into a corner if you want to leave — particularly if they have a religious basis for their “policies”.
In recent years, I have found the only real value a community provides for me personally is a forum for achievement. The community has needs, and I can meet them with my free labor while gaining intangible benefits I recognized to be part of my service before I granted it. But this only seems to work for me when it’s on my own terms — not when I MUST behave a certain way to remain in “good standing”, or when I have to do a lot of things I would rather not do (like set up chairs, sit through boring meetings, attend training meetings with no stated agenda).
In my personal experience, the Mormon community has not been “there for me” in times of need, except after protracted effort and highly visible suffering on my part. And this loyalty from the community is fickle — act outside its established norms and you are quickly ostracized or labeled as unsuitable.
At one time, I thought the church welfare could be a source of tangible benefit in case life hit me hard, and created economic hardship even my frugal and conservative approach to finances could not manage. But I learned through my work as an HPGL that this program can be hard on the members, tight-fisted, and certainly is not something I believe the church administers willingly, or with even the smallest bit of attitude of reciprocity for the tens upon tens of thousands of dollars I, or others have paid in tithing.
So, what value does belong to the Mormon community have for you? Do you feel a need for it? Why do you think people want to belong to a community?
I love helping the community that has helped me and mine so much. I think it’s human nature/instinct to want to be part of a tribe/clan/community. For street kids in NYC that desire is often fulfilled by gangs, for instance. We do have some choice as to what communities we belong to, and we can choose to eschew family relationships if we desire. For many a church or religious group fills the need. That said, sometimes I think we can become disenchanted with the community we choose. Apparently you and I have had similar experiences where we thought we could depend on the church in times of need and found when that need arose the desired or needed assistance and support weren’t really there. That was a part of my faith crisis, and made me reconsider whether I should be or wanted to be part of the community going forward. I eventually chose to stay, but my expectations are now different – I give what I think I can or what I want to give and I don’t really expect anything in return. I can foresee times when I won’t give at all. Meanwhile I can appreciate the associations I have. If at some future date I need to find a different community I will put in some effort to do so.
I think sometimes it is hard to see directly and immediately all the benefits of being part of the community. But I feel I’m a better person by contributing to the community. I learn things about myself.
I have heard that, as humans, our biggest desire is acceptance. Our biggest fear is rejection. Quote:our biggest desire is acceptance. Our biggest fear is rejection.
Great, now we are going to talk about my personal issues. I sure I hope I am ready for this.
:think: I’m finding reasons as I listen to you all..this weekend, my wife went away to help a member with a sociail activity in her home Ward in another state. I was home alone with my kids. I got lonely. I felt like I wanted to call someone (other than my wife, who I’d already spoken to briefly). I felt lonely as a single young man in my late 20’s as well. It was terrible at times, when you are in free time and have nothing to do but read, clean, or pursue solitary pursuits. I think a community can help you feel less lonely (maybe not the Mormon one, for me right now, but other communities, where I might find a friend). I do feel some thanks for the values the church has given my daughter. As well as good youth to hang out with in our bootleg Ward. However, with all the negative experiences I’ve had, It brings my relationship with the church into a “less negative” balance, rather than one that makes me want to “give back” at this point. However, overcoming loneliness, and also, giving back, as Ray suggested, are reasons why one person might want to belong to a community.
SilentDawning wrote:
In my personal experience, the Mormon community has not been “there for me” in times of need, except after protracted effort and highly visible suffering on my part. And this loyalty from the community is fickle — act outside its established norms and you are quickly ostracized or labeled as unsuitable.
Sorry you’ve had a bad experience overall. I’m much more empathetic about this than I used to be, and, without raining too much on anyone’s parade, I’m often the one now who balances out discussions about how wonderful the church is with evidence to the contrary. I give concrete examples of people I know first-hand who
havehad negative experiences and say that I can empathize with their desire to detach. But it does seem that, even though there’s the potential to hurt each other, we still want community. I’ve been interested to read occasional articles about the British atheist group.
http://news.discovery.com/human/life/atheist-church-set-to-go-global-130308.htm He says they get a lot of criticism
from other atheistsabout how they’re not notbelieving in the God the right way because they’re setting up what amount to congregations of atheists. Everyone needs someone to call when the s%^! hits the fan. Someone they can bring their wet clothes to when their dryer breaks. Someone to borrow that really tall ladder from. Someone to share a secret burden or happiest news. Someone who can see them undone, unkempt and unedited. The hardest thing about my faith crisis is that it messes with my sense of belonging in my community. I reached a new equilibrium with God very quickly, but I’m still afraid of losing my closest friends. Maybe “fickle” isn’t the word I would use, but I think I know what you’re getting at.
Being part of the community brings challenges, and frustrations, and difficulties. By working through the challenges, one practices religion. Focusing on those difficulties distracts from spiritual growth. Focusing on the positives of the community enlarges your soul beyond what I think a person can do in solidarity.
In short…it is worth it. Hard…but worth it. Kind of like Thanksgiving Dinner with the whole family.
Communities are not completely negative things. In fact, at many points in human history, it is unlikely if the human race, or even large portions of it, would be around if it weren’t for community. Any community has the gossips and the backstabbers, but communities also help each other out. If it’s not helping others, it’s not really a community.
I think it’s good to be part of a community at a time when humans are becoming more and more isolated, and so vulnerable to what life throws at them.
I stay for the community. Those who don’t fit in or don’t enjoy the community leave. Religion is all about the community. It makes people want to believe so they can fit in. I’m convinced that trying to fit in and gain status in our community drives the largest majority of what occupies our waking hours. Isolation is the harshest punishment that prisons hand out and it makes even the most hardened criminals penitent. It’s an evolutionary imperative that we fit in and are accepted by our tribe since humans are such weaklings and have such dismal chances for survival alone. Thus it’s a basal need that governs our emotions like our drive for safety and our drive to reproduce and care for our children. Our emotions are like animal instincts that drive us to these things and we are powerless to fight it.
When I join a community, I want harmony, I want a certain level of kindness and respect, I want a different experience than I can get in my work. In my work, I am told what to do, and must comply or face some kind of unpleasant consequence; I don’t want the community to operate on that premise. I don’t want to be treated like an employee, and I want a certain amount of latitude to experiment, and make mistakes — with kindness shown when mistakes are made, rather than a reprimand. I want the experience to be co-missioned — where I meet organizational goals as well as some of my own goals at the same time. And I would like to see the creative tension between being an achieving organization, while also being an organization that cares deeply about its people and its relationships. I am getting to the point where I believe these are the kinds of values you have to build from the ground up in an organization, and build them through the selection of leaders, through systems, through careful transmission of messages through your actions as a leader. Few organizations have them.
And it makes me think the time will come when I will start my own — not my own religion — I repeat — not my own religion, but a community of volunteers who work to benefit society, with achievement and these values at the forefront of everything we do. Not at this phase of my life which is preoccupied with child raising, getting post-graduate education, and community service in other organizations — but eventually, perhaps in retirement,
It’s the lack of these values in action in most communities that has made me question whether even belonging to a community is even for me at this time, hence this discussion topic.
SilentDawning wrote:When I join a community, I want harmony, I want a certain level of kindness and respect, I want a different experience than I can get in my work. In my work, I am told what to do, and must comply or face some kind of unpleasant consequence; I don’t want the community to operate on that premise. I don’t want to be treated like an employee, and I want a certain amount of latitude to experiment, and make mistakes — with kindness shown when mistakes are made, rather than a reprimand. I want the experience to be co-missioned — where I meet organizational goals as well as some of my own goals at the same time. And I would like to see the creative tension between being an achieving organization, while also being an organization that cares deeply about its people and its relationships.
I am getting to the point where I believe these are the kinds of values you have to build from the ground up in an organization, and build them through the selection of leaders, through systems, through careful transmission of messages through your actions as a leader. Few organizations have them.
And it makes me think the time will come when I will start my own — not my own religion — I repeat — not my own religion, but a community of volunteers who work to benefit society, with achievement and these values at the forefront of everything we do. Not at this phase of my life which is preoccupied with child raising, getting post-graduate education, and community service in other organizations — but eventually, perhaps in retirement,
It’s the lack of these values in action in most communities that has made me question whether even belonging to a community is even for me at this time, hence this discussion topic.
Sadly, SD, the reality of communities is that they are not all sunshine and roses – and I think that’s for a reason.
I think we all expect them to fall short of perfection. So, I hope my definition doesn’t appear like its all sunshine and roses — it isn’t. It’s a wish list of items, and I think some of that has to be present — lose it all, and I’m out of there. I am starting to believe that just as really good organizations orient people to the organization before they actually commit to them, I should also be orienting the organization to myself — so they can decide if I am a good fit for them based on my own expectations. There are often gaps in their orientation, and you only learn about them through experience or as they make mistakes.
Who knows — the idea is so unorthodox I fully expect leaders in communities to reject them. Particularly in the church — can you imagine how the average Bishop or Priesthood leader would react if, before a person accepts a calling, they describe what they would like to experience in the calling, and make their service conditional upon it?
They would run like heck — I think the latent culture in the LDS church is that you don’t put conditions or constraints on your service — including where you serve and for how long.
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