Why can’t church leaders be more straightforward?

[Anonymous]

diamondback wrote:

I have to be honest that there is still some resentment in me which will color this final response for this thread and I apologize in advance for that.

It’s ok. At least here we are not going to be shocked or surprised by seeing those feelings. We know them. We purposely try to keep the tone positive here, but I understand where you are coming from. The mission of StayLDS is to help people make a peaceful transition through this personal evolution. We don’t have a new right answer, a new “one true truth” to replace the old one. But other people have made it through the purging fire to the other end, wherever that lead them.

A few comments on your comments:

diamondback wrote:

1. It was the leaders themselves that made this issue so black and white as to preclude some of the responses that I can just believe what I want to or the church can be what I want it to be my rejecting those things I disagree with and accepting those I do.

I highly recommend the resources here about “Stages of Faith” by Dr. James Fowler (who is not LDS btw). It helps some to put this all in perspective. When “leaders” and members are promoting that idea of truth dichotomy (all true or all false), they are a Stage 3 group talking to themselves. Just because they see in black and white doesn’t mean the world is black and white.

It is very painful for us to tear our center of authority away from our group. Your comments give me the impression you are still feeling very connected and smothered by your “group.” Your focus still seems to be about how you want “the group” to reflect your new perspective. The fact that nobody has stood up in front of the group to acknowledge your new “truths” is creating great stress. YOU ARE NOW DIFFERENT. But like you said later, there is no going backwards, so it’s a matter of changing to adapt. We change ourselves here because there is no chance we are going to change all the other 13 million LDS members to make sure they believe the same way as us.

The problem is that this person we make up in our head called “the Church” is millions of individual people. They ALL have their own ideas. I guarantee you that people in their minds and hearts reject things in the Church without making a big show of it. They may not even consciously recognize they are doing it. I have conversations with people like that all the time, but mostly because I come across as someone open to listening. I think it would be really odd if too many people really did all believe the same way. That just isn’t realistic, and would produce a stale and static community, not a living “church.”

Great example: How many sisters in your ward do you really think are gung-ho about polygamy in the afterlife? I know you probably can’t do a poll, but think about it. That is just one example. I would bet hard money that half or less of all the people you think are walking lockstep and are “approved” by the group really believe every tenant literally. Every Mormon is a buffet Mormon. Most don’t realize it. A few of us know we are, and make the decisions consciously about what “dishes” we eat at the buffet and which we pass on. From that perspective, who is being “true to themselves” and has personal integrity, really? 😈 Those of us who admit to ourselves we don’t do it all? Or all the rest that delude themselves into thinking they really check every box on the list? I can easily argue that I have more integrity and honesty by doing what I do for well-thought reasons than all the “normal” (so-called) members that delude themselves into thinking they follow all the “rules” perfectly.

diamondback wrote:

You may have fun and the club may do great things for the community but we are defined by the associations we keep. Keeping the LDS moniker, taking on us the name of Christ (as we have been taught by the LDS church), and participating in the temple ceremony with its associated covenants, requires you have to accept it all (or at least appear to) to maintain personal integrity to what you say you are (i.e. LDS)

Let me know when you find the perfect, flawless church, club, nation or company to work for. Otherwise, we are just going to have to deal with what we find. Human beings have been working on that problem for 15,000 years or more. We’re not quite there yet.

Until then, I am just going to have to associate with a few human beings that are flawed and don’t believe exactly like I do, even if that taints me by their association.

Ooops, I wanted to respond more but time slipped away. I will try to come back and finish if I get a chance.

Until then, like I said, we know what you are going through. We’ve been there too on some level or another. There is more peace ahead, I promise. You will have to figure it out though. Nobody but you can find the answers that resolve stuff for you.

[Anonymous]

diamondback wrote:

This is all very disappointing to say the least. We all find ways to cope. Apparently, I still need to find mine.

I’m not sure you meant that line to be funny but I was rotflmao… 😳

Like someone said, it’s funny because it’s true. I’ve so been where you’re at. I’m very excited that you are willing to confront it honestly and explore possibility. What Brian said was fantastic. It really is a process of changing the meaning of meaning. We’ve all been perceiving the world in a certain way but, really, isn’t it just perception? I mean, for as much as we all used to say, “I know without any doubt that…”, but really it’s perception. Another cliche: perception is reality. And, in a faith paradigm that can take on unusually strong “realities”.

Anyways, I hope you can find it in you to continue participating here. For me, it was a game-changer… in a good way.

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