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amateurparent wrote:
I think of an Abrahamic test being one like Abraham’s — Abraham was tested, but he didn’t actually have to kill anyone. We talk about the story of Laban and we discuss the culture and how killing was okay. We conveniently forget the Ten Commandments. We forget the basic laws of all the people who consider themselves descendants of Abraham. We forget that Nephi considered himself righteous.
We say that we believe God is the same today and yesterday. We say that we believe the basic laws of God do not change. Then we make exceptions for murder and polygamy and shopping malls. We worry about dating ages and missions, but give murder a pass.
I don’t get it.
Me neither.
The thing that bothers me more than the murder is the idea in the BoM of God giving the people every chance possible, and even in reluctantly allowing them to be destroyed. But with Laban,…could there have been another option? Lehi was leaving. He wasn’t sticking around.
I have no sympathy for Laban. He sounds like a real creep. But this story makes me frightened of God. It makes me feel like God is NOT someone I want to be around lest I make someone angry, and I am sacrificed as well.
When I was bored in SM and skipping SS today I did some research. There doesn’t seem to be any definitive scholarly proof Nephi was justified in killing Laban under ancient Hebrew law. There does seem to be lots of justification on the part of apologetics. I’m not saying there isn’t proof or scholarly writing on the subject – but it doesn’t readily pop up on Google. Thus, at least for now, this goes in the apologist fluff bin along with the wine in Jesus’s time was grape juice and other like explanations of things. It absolutely was murder by our modern standards – but he had stolen their belongings and tried to kill them, meaning there is a valid argument for self-defense – especially in that time and culture. It would not have been uncommon at all for someone then and there to believe God had arranged it. That doesn’t mean I have to take that same message from it. Different time; different culture; different person; different perspective.
DarkJedi wrote:…apologist fluff bin along with the wine in Jesus’s time was grape juice and other like explanations of things.
It wasn’t grape juice?
Oh man,…
:wtf: ((I got stress now. I need a drink. Wait!???)
Rob4Hope wrote:DarkJedi wrote:…apologist fluff bin along with the wine in Jesus’s time was grape juice and other like explanations of things.
It wasn’t grape juice?
Oh man,…
:wtf: ((I got stress now. I need a drink. Wait!???)
Yeah, one of those things that bugs me. Not only was it not grape juice, it was purposefully alcoholic to kill the germs (and probably for other reasons). Like I said, apologetic fluff.
And were it not for the grape juice, would Nephi have been able to kill Laban? It does say Laban was “drunken with wine.” (See what I did there?)
Unfortunately it seems the message of the story is a reversal about the 99 sheep. In this version Nephi should kill the one (Laban)to save the 99.
Quote:1 Nephi 4:13
Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief.
Caiaphas uses the same language to predict the death of Jesus to save the 99.
Quote:John 11:49-52
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
Whereas Christ seems to instruct leaving the 99 to save the one.
Quote:Matthew 18:12-14
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
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