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The problem is that sometimes when you are dating, your brain is full of dopamine and you can be stupid. I too have some friends that married young and they are perfect matches. Not that it can’t happen, but we shouldn’t pushing everyone for that to be the norm. SWK is the one that said “any 2 people”.
My son is 17, and is preparing to go on a mission. Even at his age, he talks about how important family is to him. He can’t wait to have a family and get married and start his own happy home. With him as with his older 2 sisters, I try to talk about a need to prepare sufficiently for it. But…like his sisters…it is what he values and wants. And I can’t really argue…it is a good thing.
I guess I just think it has to do with 4 things:
1. Family is emphasized since they are young
2. Values of money and securing physical/worldly things are less important (not ignored but less important)
3. They see examples, so many of their siblings, cousins, friends do it and survive and even promote it as the “best thing”
4. No sex before marriage.
I just think it is reinforced in our culture.
I just worry about them rushing into it…but also realize they are resilient. They will decide what they want in life and I will help point out the trade-offs so they are aware of their decisions. But I don’t think it is necessarily a “bad” thing.
I worry about them rushing in, too, Heber. My 24-year-old BYU graduate daughter (in grad school elsewhere) is not married and has a non-member boyfriend. I’m fine with that, he’s a professional and they’re in no rush. They haven’t talked marriage (she says) and they have been dating four months. On the flip side, she is semi active and there are several areas of our culture with which she disagrees – marrying quickly being one of them. My recently RM 21-year-old son is at BYU. He’s got a level head and I was actually more worried about him before his mission. He does not have a girlfriend and has not really dated much since returning to BYU in January (he works an evening shift). His mission president, who is far from the normal MP, counsels the missionaries he’s releasing not to rush into marriage(!) and tells them it will happen when it happens. The devotional speaker last week (Scott Esplin) shared his story about how he didn’t marry until he was 30 and why. My son is pretty orthodox and I’m sure he wants to have a family – but he also values education and stability. I don’t expect he will be one who is engaged in 3 months and married in 6 (he’s already been home nearly 3 months, but 6 weeks were here where the pickins are slim anyway – but he did date). I do expect it will move along quickly when he meets “the right one.”
It’s hard to tell about the younger two. The current missionary was always very focused on his studies and didn’t have a girlfriend in high school because his goal was a mission. The high school son does have a nice non-member girl friend (he is the only member in his high school) and hasn’t decided about a mission (and has no money).
The biggest thing with me is I don’t want any of my children to feel they are stuck in a relationship because they rushed in and had kids. That’s what is so offensive to me about the ETB/SWK statements (and there were probably others who said it). I don’t think you should get married just to get married – or just to have sex.
I think being a convert (and having had relationships that centered largely on sex) I now appreciate the law of chastity than most of my peers. I don’t want to rush into anything! Her dad is a convert too, and we’ve had this conversation in private. He says that she and I really click (and we do), and that we should not be putting off marriage in favor of what if’s.
Thanks for all the many replies to this post, they’ve opened my eyes a lot to what pressures members feel who grow up in the church. And the want to be sexual ASAP is something I can really appreciate.
I can answer that in one word. Sex.
SilentDawning wrote:I can answer that in one word.
Sex.
Yep.
You
can’t even masturbate. There’s been a lot of ink spilled in the Bloggernacle about how the Church’s guilt-laden approach to sex damages adults and marriages. I wish we could ease up a little – I don’t think we need to reverse the Law of Chastity, but taking things to an extreme is unhealthy.
Joni wrote:SilentDawning wrote:I can answer that in one word.
Sex.
Yep.
You
can’t even masturbate. There’s been a lot of ink spilled in the Bloggernacle about how the Church’s guilt-laden approach to sex damages adults and marriages. I wish we could ease up a little – I don’t think we need to reverse the Law of Chastity, but taking things to an extreme is unhealthy.
In fairness, I think they have eased up a bit especially concerning masturbation. Both of my sons said they were not asked about masturbation in their mission interviews by either the bishop or SP. In my day if you admitted you masturbated you had to wait until you were “masturbation free” before you could serve and my MP regularly asked (my RM son says his MP never asked). I would guess that there are some old school guys who probably still ask, though, and I agree, the guilt-laden approach does long term damage. I have become convinced that Alma isn’t even talking about sex in that verse.
DarkJedi wrote:Joni wrote:SilentDawning wrote:I can answer that in one word.
Sex.
Yep.
You
can’t even masturbate. There’s been a lot of ink spilled in the Bloggernacle about how the Church’s guilt-laden approach to sex damages adults and marriages. I wish we could ease up a little – I don’t think we need to reverse the Law of Chastity, but taking things to an extreme is unhealthy.
In fairness, I think they have eased up a bit especially concerning masturbation. Both of my sons said they were not asked about masturbation in their mission interviews by either the bishop or SP. In my day if you admitted you masturbated you had to wait until you were “masturbation free” before you could serve and my MP regularly asked (my RM son says his MP never asked). I would guess that there are some old school guys who probably still ask, though, and I agree, the guilt-laden approach does long term damage. I have become convinced that Alma isn’t even talking about sex in that verse.
Not universal. My SP (<50 years old) asked my son and said the bar was 6 months "free". A friend of mine's son was mission papers were held up for about 3 months at BYU-I and was only OK'ed when the bishop was changed.I used the above as an illustration, LH, and did point out I believed it wasn’t universal. I will note that the above did include multiple bishops/SPs because both changed between the two sons and one initially interviewed at BYU (where he was asked about porn but not masturbation). We don’t seem to have talks which mention masturbation anymore (not that they were common to begin with) and For the Strength of the Youth took it out in the most recent edition. On the flip side, To Young Men Only and the “little factory” still seems to exist.
The point is that it does seem to be less emphasized than it once was.
The missionaries who taught me 8 months ago never once mentioned masturbation when they were teaching me. I went on for about 6 weeks not knowing I was doing any sin. It came up in a discussion with my Bishop when I was getting the priesthood, and that was when I found out! I have since sat in on many lessons with the missionaries, and whenever the law of chastity is taught, I make sure it gets included now. The guilt I felt initially was something I wouldn’t want anybody else to feel. Having been very sexually active with 3 people regularly before joining to church, masturbation was my ‘release’!
😳 😥 LookingHard wrote:
Not universal. My SP (<50 years old) asked my son and said the bar was 6 months "free". A friend of mine's son was mission papers were held up for about 3 months at BYU-I and was only OK'ed when the bishop was changed.Imagine the shame and horror a YM would face if they messed up doing this
horrible?sin on their mission. I think that most would start to lie about it. Because it was a reason for NOT being called on a mission in the first place, could it be a reason for them to be sent home? (I think that some Elders would wonder…and so begins the shame cycle…) mikethemormon wrote:The missionaries who taught me 8 months ago never once mentioned masturbation when they were teaching me. I went on for about 6 weeks not knowing I was doing any sin. It came up in a discussion with my Bishop when I was getting the priesthood, and that was when I found out!
I have since sat in on many lessons with the missionaries, and whenever the law of chastity is taught, I make sure it gets included now. The guilt I felt initially was something I wouldn’t want anybody else to feel. Having been very sexually active with 3 people regularly before joining to church, masturbation was my ‘release’!
😳 😥 There are those who don’t believe masturbation is a sin, at least not a serious sin. Perhaps it wasn’t mentioned because it is not emphasized. Instead of encouraging the missionaries to discuss it with investigators perhaps you should have been more direct with your bishop in not discussing it. I recognize leadership roulette, but I’m surprised he brought it up. The handbooks seem to indicate that if a man is worthy of baptism he is worthy of the priesthood (my SP says this all the time). Masturbation is not asked about in the baptism interview, nor the TR interview (although chastity is asked about). The TR questions require only a yes or no answer and are not to be deviated from when appropriately answered. There are no set questions for MP ordination or missionary service, but it does seem that TR questions are the gold standard of worthiness. Unfortunately some leaders take things too far.
Rob4Hope wrote:LookingHard wrote:
Not universal. My SP (<50 years old) asked my son and said the bar was 6 months "free". A friend of mine's son was mission papers were held up for about 3 months at BYU-I and was only OK'ed when the bishop was changed.Imagine the shame and horror a YM would face if they messed up doing this
horrible?sin on their mission. I think that most would start to lie about it. Because it was a reason for NOT being called on a mission in the first place, could it be a reason for them to be sent home? (I think that some Elders would wonder…and so begins the shame cycle…) My recently returned son was very close with his MP, having served in the office. They had many discussions about things generally not discussed. Masturbation was one of them. MPs are told masturbation is not a reason to send someone home.
DarkJedi wrote:mikethemormon wrote:The missionaries who taught me 8 months ago never once mentioned masturbation when they were teaching me. I went on for about 6 weeks not knowing I was doing any sin. It came up in a discussion with my Bishop when I was getting the priesthood, and that was when I found out!
I have since sat in on many lessons with the missionaries, and whenever the law of chastity is taught, I make sure it gets included now. The guilt I felt initially was something I wouldn’t want anybody else to feel. Having been very sexually active with 3 people regularly before joining to church, masturbation was my ‘release’!
😳 😥 There are those who don’t believe masturbation is a sin, at least not a serious sin. Perhaps it wasn’t mentioned because it is not emphasized. Instead of encouraging the missionaries to discuss it with investigators perhaps you should have been more direct with your bishop in not discussing it. I recognize leadership roulette, but I’m surprised he brought it up. The handbooks seem to indicate that if a man is worthy of baptism he is worthy of the priesthood (my SP says this all the time). Masturbation is not asked about in the baptism interview, nor the TR interview (although chastity is asked about). The TR questions require only a yes or no answer and are not to be deviated from when appropriately answered. There are no set questions for MP ordination or missionary service, but it does seem that TR questions are the gold standard of worthiness. Unfortunately some leaders take things too far.
In my prior stake, the TR questions at the stake level include:
1. When was the last time you masturbated?
2. When was the last time you looked at pornography?
The questions persisted in this stake for at least the 4-5 years I can remember…
I don’t want to take this off track but… Because a person has a position of authority, do they have the right to ask any question?
Next, do I have to answer their questions?
My answer to both is NO!
Don’t do it. Never. Ever.
When you do, you give them power.
If there is a consequence to not answering, I prefer to pay the consequence.
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