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Rob said: Quote:In my prior stake, the TR questions at the stake level include:
1. When was the last time you masturbated?
2. When was the last time you looked at pornography?
The questions persisted in this stake for at least the 4-5 years I can remember…
Did they ask the Sister’s the same questions?
How creepy is that?
In private industry this is sexual harassment & it has legal consequences.
Nothing seems to be private when it comes to the Church.
Rob4Hope wrote:In my prior stake, the TR questions at the stake level include:
1. When was the last time you masturbated?
2. When was the last time you looked at pornography?
The questions persisted in this stake for at least the 4-5 years I can remember…
In the current handbooks (and in the TR book itself) it is made very clear that bishoprics and stake presidencies doing interviews are not to deviate from the questions as written unless a member answers the question in a way that requires further investigation (as in saying “not completely” or “I look at porn” in answer to the LoC question). If the answers are straightforward yes or no (as appropriate) and they ask anything further you do not have to answer, and if you are denied a TR on that basis you have every right to appeal to higher authority. There was a time in the 80s (or maybe early 90s?) when other questions were permitted (like the infamous oral sex question) which actually helped precipitate the current policy. FWIW, I believe the questions as written are meticulously (vaguely) worded by the Brethren on purpose.
There is more leeway in other interviews, however, including interviews for missionaries, where are there are no set questions. My SP takes the view that the TR questions are gold standard for worthiness interviews to serve in positions where a degree of worthiness is deemed necessary (such as EQP). It is actually interesting to me that when he sends us out to extend calls to stake auxiliary counselors, quorum and group counselors or assistants, and assistant clerks that we don’t ask any worthiness questions whatsoever – including if the have or are worthy of a TR. We are to only find out of they are able and willing, and then extend the call if appropriate (and often sustain and set them apart).
Alas, we have deviated from the question at hand.
To be honest it’s something I have never really understood. I think a lot of it has to do with why Young men and Young Women feel as if they need to go on a mission at 18 &19 now. Because everyone else is doing it. It’s really not something that I’ve fallen for though. 😆 Marriage seems like a waste of time in my opinion.willb1993 wrote:😆 Marriage seems like a waste of time in my opinion.It does have some good tax benefits, though.
:thumbup: Heber13 wrote:willb1993 wrote:😆 Marriage seems like a waste of time in my opinion.It does have some good tax benefits, though.
:thumbup: True – and the child tax credit is fantastic!
DarkJedi wrote:Heber13 wrote:willb1993 wrote:😆 Marriage seems like a waste of time in my opinion.It does have some good tax benefits, though.
:thumbup: True – and the child tax credit is fantastic!
Yeh…but child support is a (#$&!)#$*~#!
Especially when you don’t get to even see them much
This last discussion is interesting. Marriage has clear documented benefits. Married people tend to live longer, be healthier, wealthier, and happier. And yet all is not a bed of roses. Marriage might not fit all people at all times and seasons of their life. Sometimes marriage is unhappy and the cause of extra stress. When marriage ends it can leave a long term financial burden in the sense of child support and alimony. I have a metaphor for life in the church somewhere in there. Roy wrote:This last discussion is interesting. Marriage has clear documented benefits. Married people tend to live longer, be healthier, wealthier, and happier. And yet all is not a bed of roses. Marriage might not fit all people at all times and seasons of their life. Sometimes marriage is unhappy and the cause of extra stress. When marriage ends it can leave a long term financial burden in the sense of child support and alimony. I have a metaphor for life in the church somewhere in there.
:clap: SilentDawning wrote:I can answer that in one word.
Sex.
I concur
The pressure to get married and then to stay married can make for many unhappy marriages.
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Cadence wrote:SilentDawning wrote:I can answer that in one word.
Sex.
I concur
The pressure to get married and then to stay married can make for many unhappy marriages.
There is something more to it than just that, it seems.To me, that over simplification is like saying kids go to college so they can party and drink beer.
There is an underlying value-based decision for going to college, and some choose to go and some don’t. For those that choose to go, there are lots of pressure to party and fit in with crowds and show independence, and some really get into that and some don’t (mormons don’t get into partying as much as others perhaps, but not exclusively mormons…other Christian schools also have standards and avoid pre-marital sex and alcohol).
But while all that is going on for some at college, there really is an underlying thing that most figure out…which is to invest in ways to build careers and a stable future. That is what college really should be about…and people approach it differently, but there is more to college than partying.
Similarly, mormons see the marriage and family as a way to build a stable future and lifestyle on their way to finding greater happiness and fulfillment.
Why do they have kids at such a young age? Because of sex? That doesn’t make sense. They can have all the sex they want after marriage…but they choose to have kids young. To me, that shows there is something more to it than sex for these young mormons.
While some will find it doesn’t work out the way they thought it would…the need for sex or the commitment to avoid divorce doesn’t sum up the drive for marriage. Having gone through it, and watching my kids go through it…there is more to it. It makes them happy. It is what life is about. Family is woven into who we are and our purpose.
Heber13 wrote:They can have all the sex they want after marriage…
You know how culturally contaminated this is? I know dozens of marriages where the children are the complete focus of the mothers, and the husbands are faced with choosing between masturbation or celibacy. And, its not always the wife who does this either–many men are married to their jobs or their callings and totally neglect their wife.
I’ve seen the idea proposed that LDS people marry young for sex. And then the children come along, sex ends, and divorce happens. Its like the circle of life for a significant number of marriages.
Yeh, I know not all marriages are like this. Yeh, I know that not all marriages go sexless. But the statistics on this are chilling–back in the SWK day, the #1 cause of divorce, according to him, was they didn’t get along sexually.
No Heber,…you CAN’T have all the sex you want after marriage. That implies both partners want sex, and the reality is the low desire partner ALWAYS decides frequency, duration, and activity. This is backed by solid concrete research by Dr. David Snarch, and Michele Weiner-Davis.
And, in the LDS faith the message is STILL that sexuality and spirituality are in opposition. The “Good Girl Syndrome” and the “Good Boy Syndrome.” I respect all people say out here,…but there are people I’ve met recently who still have struggles with believing that sexuality and spirituality can coexist.
Until that false message is adequately addressed, there will continue to be problems.
To choose to be sexual outside of marriage is a sin. To choose to be less than sexually inclined INSIDE of marriage?…well, that is just normal. And the divorce court thunder rolls….
PS. Heber, this is not directed at you personally at all…. I have too much respect for you. It was just something in that phrase above jumped out at me. Were good.
Quote:Rob4hope wrote: No Heber,…you CAN’T have all the sex you want after marriage. That implies both partners want sex, and the reality is the low desire partner ALWAYS decides frequency, duration, and activity. This is backed by solid concrete research by Dr. David Snarch, and Michele Weiner-Davis.
Yes, Heber .. You can have all the sex you want .. If you pick the right partner .. And if you are able to physically keep up. The key is making sure neither partner is the “low desire” partner. Pregnancy, children, and employment do not slow down most women.
Unfortunately, the women who do have low desire get talked about by their frustrated partners, and people start to think that is the common norm. It isn’t.
Think of all those ED ads. Those ads play during shows that women watch for a reason.
But .. How miserable to be married to someone who had a vastly decreased libido or function. In LDS dating, how does one figure out who is the “low desire” partner?? That is the book that needs to be written.
amateurparent wrote:But .. How miserable to be married to someone who had a vastly decreased libido or function. In LDS dating, how does one figure out who is the “low desire” partner?? That is the book that needs to be written.
Part of the problem is that many (very young) of both genders have shut off (or significantly repressed) their sexuality, so you can’t ask them as usually they don’t really know themselves. And even for those outside the church that have sex before marriage, they often find things dramatically change shortly after marriage (leading to a complaint about being a victim of “bait and switch”).amateurparent wrote:In LDS dating, how does one figure out who is the “low desire” partner??
Therein lies the rub.
😳 I keep on reading these posts about asexual marriages .. So I know it’s out there and there are people suffering. In my world, my LDS girlfriends are talking about lingerie, having their kid walk in on them while in the shower with their husband, getting implants or a lift, weekends away to “play”, oral sex, and the benefits of various forms of foreplay. These are all women who have been married over 30 years .. And they talk about their daughters as if the next generation had continued the tradition. That is my normal.
My big question: If someone is in an asexual marriage, what makes that person stay?? I can understand health issues, impotence due to disease, etc, but what makes someone stay in a relationship that has become merely platonic?
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