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Hey forum! School has been keeping me extra busy, but I’m back for a moment. I proposed to my wife that within our lifetime we might see same sex marriage in the temple. She didn’t agree. I said that 40 years ago many members couldn’t image that blacks would ever hold the priesthood. Yet here we are in 2011, and an African man blessing the sacrament on Sunday in my ward doesn’t even raise a brow. I believe that “same sex marriage?” will be the “blacks and the priesthood” of my generation. Any thoughts?
-Greg
Somehow, I think not. Change is very gradual in the Church. And this is a biggie. It’s bigger than race and the priesthood in my view, because it weaves sexuality into it. Plus they’ve boxed themselves in with the Proclamation to the World. I don’t think so, and my reason is based on the “As above, so below” model of existence the Church likes to maintain, without actually saying it. (that wouldn’t do, since its been a primarily Hermetic/mystic/occultist saying for hundreds of years) Also, based on the best recent science I’ve heard of, we have reason to believe the essential focus of sexual attraction is biological in nature. Which means just as we would expect a child born without legs would have them in the next life, so too a homosexual would have normal attractions to the opposite sex in the hereafter.
I don’t think it’s really that simple, but I do believe that’s the essential way of it. We do have choice of a sort, and we’ll be resurrected with the same spirit and will that we have now. So there are a lot of other factors.
Institutionally speaking, I would be absolutely amazed to see this change in the Church. Could happen, certainly – but if so it’s gotta be WAAAAYY out there.
HiJolly
No, it is to big a leap and would be in opposition to the doctrine that has been taught for the last 150 years. Besides I can not understand why homosexuals would even desire a temple marriage, other than to make a point and force acceptance. Well…. since the temple sealing part of the N&E covenant is about forming an eternal union that can have everlasting “increase”, it would see contradictory to solemnize a marriage that was unable to achieve that end. Of course, we have examples of people having “seed” without giving birth (Christ) but this is a different part of the N&E covenant (baptism and atonement). Just my .02 but I don’t see it happening. It flies in the face of too much established core doctrine.
I’ll go against the grain on this one. Will the church ever give up the Celestial Law of marriage (polygamy?)
Will the church ever allow blacks to hold the priesthood and get married in the temple?
My husband and I talk about this quite frequently. His brother is gay, and is in a relationship with another young man who is lds as well. For all I know his brother is still active in the church and goes to institute. This has been such a struggle for him, as he still wants to be in the church, but the church is making it impossible for him to do so. My husband strongly believes that the church will change their policies on gay members being able to be married and sealed in the temple. I didn’t agree with him at first, but when I look back at some of the other changes the church has made, it doesn’t seem that far fetched. the great thing about the church is it’s ability to change. This might very possibly be another policy that we will look back on in 30 maybe 50 years and be embarassed about…much like the blacks and the priesthood.
My husband also told me that in Joseph Smith’s time you were able to be sealed to anyone in the temple, such as friends and others. anyone else heard of this? So it seems, if this is true, our views on sealing have significantly changed since that time…and I think they could change again.
this is my secret hope for the sake of my faithful, but struggling, brother in law.
” Plus they’ve boxed themselves in with the Proclamation to the World.” this has already been demoted from a “revelation” to a “guide”.
in my opinion changes are already happening…they just might be a bit too subtle for us to realize them.
Cadence wrote:Besides I can not understand why homosexuals would even desire a temple marriage, other than to make a point and force acceptance.
I think they would want to marry in the temple for the same reason that heterosexual mormons want to marry in the temple. They would want to be sealed for eternity to each other and to their children (adopted or conceived through alternate means of course). They would want to fit in with their faith tradition. They would want it because they believed that was God’s will for them. It’s like saying in 1975, “Why would blacks even want the priesthood? Just to be defy the system?”
mercyngrace wrote:It flies in the face of too much established core doctrine.
I agree, that it would be huge. IMO, abandoning polygamy and granting the priesthood to blacks were pretty darn big, but not as big as this. I just don’t think it’s impossible.
HiJolly wrote:Could happen, certainly – but if so it’s gotta be WAAAAYY out there.
Totally guessing, but I think gay marriage will be legal in all 50 states within the next 30 years. For the next 30 years after that the church will be under some big time pressure to discontinue discriminatory practices against gays, just as they were with blacks. So put it on your calendar: First temple same sex marriage in 2071. I’ll be 91. I hope I make it that long.
molly wrote:
My husband also told me that in Joseph Smith’s time you were able to be sealed to anyone in the temple, such as friends and others. anyone else heard of this? So it seems, if this is true, our views on sealing have significantly changed since that time…and I think they could change again.
I have heard of it, in connection with the doctrine of adoption (no longer practiced). I don’t think it was available to the general rank and file of the Church.HiJolly
MtnMan wrote:HiJolly wrote:Could happen, certainly – but if so it’s gotta be WAAAAYY out there.
Totally guessing, but I think gay marriage will be legal in all 50 states within the next 30 years. For the next 30 years after that the church will be under some big time pressure to discontinue discriminatory practices against gays, just as they were with blacks. So put it on your calendar: First temple same sex marriage in 2071. I’ll be 91. I hope I make it that long.
I think your view on gay marriage is about right.I’ll be over 110 years old. And hopefully long dead.
HiJolly
SilentDawning wrote:A thought occurred to me in response to MtnMan’s post today about same sex temple marriages…let’s just assume that it’s happened — that the Prophet has had a revelation you can be a full-fledged member of the Church and be in a full-blown same sex marriage.
Perhaps my imagination isn’t as strong as yours, but I would prefer to modify your proposal.
Suppose that same sex civil marriages are offered in all states of the land.
The Prophet declares that the doctrine of the Proclamation stands however, due to the hardness of our hearts and the general complexities of living in a fallen world, Heavenly Father is waiving the strict enforcement of the “no homosexuality clause.” This would have as a precedent the hardliner anti-divorce stance of some scriptures and the law of consecration.
I do not envision same sex temple sealings as this would imply that these relationships would continue into the next life and I’m not sure how to justify that with traditional Mormon theology. But there could be same sex marriage partners that participate in the church and are not classified as sinners for the intimacy shared within the marriage.
If I was a GA and same sex civil marriages were widely available, I would quietly push for this change.
IMO That would be a huge step in the correct direction! If you havn’t listened to the Dr. William Bradshaw(former BYU profesor, mission president and father of a gay son) podcasts I would highly recomend them. f4h1
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