Will our state in the final judgment be temporary?

[Anonymous]

With regard to this topic, I’ve co-opted a little bit of truth from Jacob (not a Jacob from the scriptures but the character from the final season of LOST)…

It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress.

And I add to that the teachings of Joseph Smith which indicate in no uncertain terms that we have a lot of progress yet to attain.

[Anonymous]

mercyngrace wrote:

It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress.

And I add to that the teachings of Joseph Smith which indicate in no uncertain terms that we have a lot of progress yet to attain.

Can you expand on this? The first quote seems to imply there is only one judgment — with most(?) or all progress occuring before that. Yet, the Joseph Smith statement seems to imply there is a lot of progression needed – perhaps even too much from now until judgment day.

So, I’m not sure which interpretation judgement you’re taking — and I’m curious.

[Anonymous]

I believe progression continues until we attain to the resurrection of the dead. I believe that the final judgment is individual meaning that you are judged when you are prepared to be judged.

This quote comes right out of the RS/PH manual we used a few years back (Teachings of Brigham Young ch.38):

If a person is baptized for the remission of sins, and dies a short time thereafter, he is not prepared at once to enjoy a fulness of the glory promised to the faithful in the Gospel; for he must be schooled while in the spirit, in the other departments of the house of God, passing on from truth to truth, from intelligence to intelligence, until he is prepared to again receive his body and to enter into the presence of the Father and the Son. We cannot enter into celestial glory in our present state of ignorance and mental darkness (DBY, 378–79).

Here’s one from Joseph Smith:

“Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me.” TPJS pp.358-359

And another:

Joseph Smith: When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them (all). It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843–44, p.348)

I don’t believe we are resurrected in a sinful state. You don’t put new wine in old bottles.

Whenever I say this, people are quick to point to Alma 34 so I’ll head that off at the pass:

Quote:

32For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

The underlined portion in vs 33 must refer to the post-resurrection period since we perform labors for those in the Spirit World where progress and repentance are occurring. Verse 35 makes plain that these verses are referring to sons of perdition since they alone are sealed up to Satan and subject to the second death (even until death). Those last two statements are from D&C 76. So our period of progression (provided we aren’t sons of perdition – and that takes quite a bit of doing) extends well beyond this life, just as Joseph Smith said it did.

There are other quotes (I’ll see if I can dig one or two up) that talk about telestial beings progressing as soon as they are able to receive the gospel. In other words, they progress as spirits, at an individual rate as they become converted.

There is way too much to this topic to even begin to cover in a single post but that’s the gist.

[Anonymous]

mercyngrace wrote:

I believe progression continues until we attain to the resurrection of the dead. I believe that the final judgment is individual meaning that you are judged when you are prepared to be judged….

There is significant depth here — thanks MG.

The thought that came to my mind when reading this was “what about the morning and afternoons of the first and second resurrection?”. The scriptures and passages you quote imply an individual timeline for resurrection, predicated on individual efforts at repentence and progression. But the scriptures imply there are these synchronous judgments that happen, and you have to ready for them, because no one knows when they will be sprung upon us.

This isn’t a challenge to your thinking and quotes, just a question that comes to mind.

[Anonymous]

The morning and afternoon of the first resurrection refer to creative (resurrection is a creative process) periods – like the days of creation. (I should add that I tend to write very straightforwardly which sometimes sounds like my words are authoritative – please add IMO to everything I say… )

[Anonymous]

I believe the “days” of creation are better understood as “(radically differing in length) periods of time” – and that each of the days, for example, could have been millions of years in length.

With that background, the morning and afternoon of the first recurrection might last billions of years – or even stretch into the (plural) eternities.

We have SUCH a limited grasp of time that I’m am certain these terms are symbolic and nearly unknowable for now.

[Author]

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