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I am sure this isn’t breaking news however I have often felt many members in Utah live in a bubble. I saw this growing up SE Valley of the Phoenix area. We would often get members who’d move in from Utah, and seemingly be upset the local high schools wouldn’t cater to members attending said High school. I don’t think members from Utah can grasp this concept that they are not the majority outside of a place like Utah — a place that caters to every single whim of the LDS church. A great example of this was the drama surrounding prom at my high school every single year. There’d be this push to have a strict dress code that conformed to LDS standards only. And yes, my high school had a larger LDS student population (I think it was about 25-30%) this just seemed silly. And it was pushed every year by LDS parents. I never attended prom so I have no idea if these rules were actually implemented, but I never understood the need to push your views on others like this. I’m sure that’d work in Utah, however outside of Utah it just doesn’t work and will often times alienate non-memebrs.
Another example is a friend of mine who lives in SLC right now. He moved up there a decade ago to attend school. However I feel the bubble has impacted him negatively as well. It seems to him anywhere with large hispanic/black populations is a place to avoid.
This has been demonstrated with the way he talks about the city I currently live in called Tucson. Which does have a large hispanic population. In fact, throughout the Tucson area it’s non unsual to see plate from Sonaora, MX. Much like how in San Diego you would likely see plates from Baja. I moved here because I attended school here, and honestly just fell in love with the city. If you got to a Walmart, or any other store about 50% of the people there are likely speaking spanish. It seemed much more cultured than my suburban bubble in the SE Phoenix area. And the church was much more accepting as well.
However I am often met with crude remarks about Tucson from my friend. In his eyes he considers it a gang ridden, crime infested drug hole. Which while there is crime (it’s a big city, shocker) it’s not as much of a problem as he thinks. However I still remember making a joke about SLC and he got incredibly defensive. In his mind SLC is an absolute utopia, and nothing needs to change.
I have experienced this sort of behaviors and attitudes from Utah members all of the time. From my family that lived there, to others I have met in Utah. I still remember my grandma who lived in SLC when we visited her she would ask if we were “worried about all the Mexicans coming across the border”. It just sort of blows my mind how people can have these sorts of mentalities, and it would seem like someone from a growing city like SLC would be more open minded, but it doesn’t seem to be. And it seems Utah is often 30 years behind the rest of the states when it comes to rights, etc.
And I understand not every member from Utah is like this. And I do understand I may be a bit biased with somewhat resentful of Utah members, so there’s that. But I feel my point still stands.
EDIT: Just wanted to add I apologize if this post came off as a bit hateful or vitroloic. I probably wasn’t in the best place when I wrote this and should have just kept my thoughts to myself.Mormonism is a unique subculture. In some areas this subculture is dominant and acts in interesting ways as the majority. Subcultures don’t exactly burst the way that investment speculation bubbles tend to. kotm wrote:
A great example of this was the drama surrounding prom at my high school every single year. There’d be this push to have a strict dress code that conformed to LDS standards only. And yes, my high school had a larger LDS student population (I think it was about 25-30%) this just seemed silly. And it was pushed every year by LDS parents.
I think that LDS parents tend to assume that all youth should be shielded, safeguarded, and guardrailed against adult content and activities. In general, there is broad consensus among parents of all stripes that this is wise an appropriate. However, when it come to removing books from the school library, protesting the viewing of schindler’s list in history class, or policing bare shoulders at school dances – there are broad divisions over how much safeguarding is appropriate for different age groups.Roy wrote:
Mormonism is a unique subculture. In some areas this subculture is dominant and acts in interesting ways as the majority. Subcultures don’t exactly burst the way that investment speculation bubbles tend to.kotm wrote:
A great example of this was the drama surrounding prom at my high school every single year. There’d be this push to have a strict dress code that conformed to LDS standards only. And yes, my high school had a larger LDS student population (I think it was about 25-30%) this just seemed silly. And it was pushed every year by LDS parents.
I think that LDS parents tend to assume that all youth should be shielded, safeguarded, and guardrailed against adult content and activities. In general, there is broad consensus among parents of all stripes that this is wise an appropriate. However, when it come to removing books from the school library, protesting the viewing of schindler’s list in history class, or policing bare shoulders at school dances – there are broad divisions over how much safeguarding is appropriate for different age groups.
I think there’s a big difference between wanting a safe enviorment for teens verses forcing your own religious ideals on everyone else. I mean would it be okay if a bunch of Muslim parents came in and demnaded all the female students cover their faces? And yes, I seemed to have left out all of the other garbage that went on that you mentioned in your last few sentences. I recall a major push back when I was a freshman in high school to have the evolution section removed from the bio books at my high school. And the parents somehow won. And then proceeded to have a “tearing out party” to get together to tear out the evolution sections in the Bio books. And this was back in 2007. So I can’t iamgine what it’s like now. I still remember a bunch of members even banding together to prevent the construction of a homeless shelter nearby. It got incredibly nasty and really screwed up my own perception of members.
kotm wrote:
I think there’s a big difference between wanting a safe enviorment for teens verses forcing your own religious ideals on everyone else. I mean would it be okay if a bunch of Muslim parents came in and demnaded all the female students cover their faces?
Yeah, I think for Christians generally there is a tendency to blur what is bad for youth generally and what is against our religion. I also understand that in some Muslim majority countries it can be a crime to disobey religious rules. I observe that most religions, if given the chance will start to impose their standards and morality on the differently believing population. I am a huge proponent of a separation of church and state.
There used to be a time when our Stake had their own Homecoming & Prom type dances. The students represented multiple high schools in the area. I’m not sure if our Stake continues to do that today or not. My kids used to go to both.
Do they do the same thing in the Utah “bubble”?
Minyan Man wrote:
There used to be a time when our Stake had their own Homecoming & Prom type dances. The students represented multiple high schoolsin the area. I’m not sure if our Stake continues to do that today or not. My kids used to go to both.
Do they do the same thing in the Utah “bubble”?
Yeah , “Moprom” that’s what my stake did too. I thought it was a good idea considering prom tickets were about $500 a piece from what I recall.
I chaperoned a few of them as a YSA
Roy wrote:
kotm wrote:
I think there’s a big difference between wanting a safe enviorment for teens verses forcing your own religious ideals on everyone else. I mean would it be okay if a bunch of Muslim parents came in and demnaded all the female students cover their faces?
Yeah, I think for Christians generally there is a tendency to blur what is bad for youth generally and what is against our religion. I also understand that in some Muslim majority countries it can be a crime to disobey religious rules. I observe that most religions, if given the chance will start to impose their standards and morality on the differently believing population. I am a huge proponent of a separation of church and state.
Yep yep. Seperation of church and state is very important. And this is lost on so many especially members.
Looking at Utah from the outside, I find it very interesting. My daughter moved from the Midwest to Utah for college & stayed there teaching middle school & high school. When my Grandson graduated high school, we went out there for the event & visit
with old friends in the area.
A short time after getting there, we were talking with my daughter & she said (very reluctantly) that she was suspended from teaching
through the rest of that school year. Which amounted to 2 or 3 weeks. We asked what happened and she told us the following story.
She was teaching an English communications class & she introduced a topic that had political overtones. She told a story about a popular
person who was critical of Trump. (I forget the name of the “popular person”.) She wanted her students to come up with arguments of how
to counter the criticism. It wasn’t meant to be a political debate.
The students went home, told their parents & all hell broke loss. They got her suspended. Fortunately, the school administration stood by her.
Then she got the early vacation. My wife & I went to visit friends in SLC & stayed at a hotel. That night, I was watching the news & they
had a news report about the incident. I couldn’t believe it. Fortunately, they didn’t publish my daughter’s name & address.
I’m not sure if the students were LDS or not. It doesn’t really matter. I do think it’s part of the cultural bubble you’re talking about.
Personally, I wouldn’t be able to live in any environment where people are that sensitive or defensive.
Wow! I’m sorry to hear that MM. This is not the only incident that I have heard of with similar details. Teachers increasingly walk in proverbial a minefield in this polarized society. 😥 I think the Utah bubble will break only when there is a huge majority of non-members. And that will be a long time coming. I guess you should just be thankful you don’t live there if the culture bothers you…I am glad Idon’t. I am free to live my jack Mormon way of life out in the boonies where I recently moved and it suits me fine….maybe being thankful for that will help the angst you feel 
The Bubble is up and down the Mountain Time Zone/Mountain West. But I think it is starting to lose its gas. When my wife and I returned to Eastern Idaho in 2002 life had not changed much. (A thirteen year gap?)
But, since the local two year became a four year college, life is changing. The area has been invaded by students, married students, their kids, money grubbing developers, political developments that would make Reaganites seem liberal, family homes and bungalows being bulldozed for apartment complexes whose architects should be strapped, an endless array of fast food restaurants and banking corporations. To go with it, lying politicians, and everything else that goes with “success”. As Hugh Nibley once observed (I paraphrase): when the Nephites lived a life of agriculture things went pretty well. But when they started embracing commerce and business, things went to poo. (He did not say poo…)
One item, innocuous as it may seem? McDonalds cannot move enough coffee during the day. Little coffee trailers have opened, a coffee franchise opened with Java City and Starbucks on the way. You might ask, who is drinking all of that coffee? Well, me for one. But I do not think the little white college handbook is a forcefield keeping students from caffeine. Or vape pens…
In our grocery stores it has been awhile since I have seen a Cosmopolitan magazine turned around so no-one can see the model on the cover. It probably still happens, but not like it used to.
When we returned in 2002 a popular Saturday activity embraced by some of our neighborly sisters was to go to the mall in Idaho Falls and protest, yes protest, the Victoria’s Secret. It was not appropriate they believed. They invited my wife. She declined. Then she wondered where she would shop for our anniversary. But I out did that. One afternoon I wandered into the said Victoria’s and bought my wife perfume for her birthday. I had our twins with me, who might have been 4? Well as I walked out with an oversized bag holding 3 oz of perfume, holding hands with my babies, who should I run into? The ladies protesting, signs and all. The looks on their faces were priceless.
There is a shift that comes with all the trappings people here want. Some might still insist things be done the LDS way, but fewer I think. Nobody would protest Victoria’s anymore. Coffee is not viewed like meth. Students and town folk lack curtesy toward each other. It has just changed. Maybe it is indescribable, but probably not unlike we see all around us.
Thank you, Friedrich, for those observations. It all sounds like an increase in tolerance to me.
If that’s what it means to live in a bubble, then I hope they deflate.
It has been happening for a while. It is most pronounced in SLC, which actually is a regional culture Mecca and highly-ranked area for LGBTQ+ people, but the general bubble is bursting even more with the rise of my children’s generations.
It isn’t the Utah of my childhood anymore, and that is a good thing.
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