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I just read swimordie’s post on another thread: Quote:If I drank wine at the communion of my nephew to demonstrate love and support for him and his family, which level of the celestial kingdom would I be forfeiting? (too cynical?? )
…and it made me think. In recent years, medical science has shown a few things that are restricted in the WoW to actually be good for you (in moderation). Coffee, red wine, certain teas…
In fact, I have heard that there already is a change: when I was on my mission to Japan in the late 70s, we could not drink their green tea they always served us. I’ve heard the missionaries can drink green tea now. It’s only hearsay, so does anybody else have any confirmation of this?
My grandpa was the bishop of the Bingham Ward back in the 30s. I read in his diary that he would often hurry the bishopric meeting along so they could go out and smoke their cigars. We know there has been varying degrees of “enforcement” through the years…even Joseph is known to have been quite the imbiber at times. So with the apparent selective “emphasis” on the various parts of the WoW, do you think it will change much in the future?
I don’t really see it changing any time soon. Honestly, I think we LDS liketo be different and need something (like this) that sets us apart. That said, it would be good if it went back to how it is written to be. Without constraint. I think many people would benefit if we were able to interpret “hot drinks” for ourselves. That way the whole green tea debate can be done. Seriously, I avoided all foods with it in there—it’s in supplements and everything! My TBM parents drink it, though. So, maybe it would only help “hard-core” people not obsess.
Oh, I think we should add on to the WoW.
“I sayeth unto you that convenience food, full of preservatives are not for the body, neither for the belly. And again, soda pop is not for the body or belly. Prescription drugs are to be used sparingly and with thanksgiving. Yea, fried foods should not be used, only in times of famine. Take your vitamins and drink 8 glasses of water daily.”
just me wrote:I don’t really see it changing any time soon. Honestly, I think we LDS
liketo be different and need something (like this) that sets us apart. That said, it would be good if it went back to how it is written to be. Without constraint. I think many people would benefit if we were able to interpret “hot drinks” for ourselves. That way the whole green tea debate can be done. Seriously, I avoided all foods with it in there—it’s in supplements and everything! My TBM parents drink it, though. So, maybe it would only help “hard-core” people not obsess.
Oh, I think we should add on to the WoW.
“I sayeth unto you that convenience food, full of preservatives are not for the body, neither for the belly. And again, soda pop is not for the body or belly. Prescription drugs are to be used sparingly and with thanksgiving. Yea, fried foods should not be used, only in times of famine. Take your vitamins and drink 8 glasses of water daily.”
All in favor say “I”….
😆 I think it would be interesting to see a different focus. Obviously, the vast majority of the members of the church don’t follow the true nature of the WoW, ie, over-eating, red meat, “hot drinks”, fruits and vegetables, etc. And, of course, it’s naive and deceptive to pretend that prescription medications, especially for pain, depression, anxiety, and sleeping are somehow, “okay”, and tobacco is not (or alcohol or illegal drugs) imho
Honestly, I like where we are now. That’s because I have no problem in ANY way living the basic don’ts that now are stressed. It’s a “strength” for me, in the sense that it’s something with which I simply don’t struggle in any way. Yes, I would also like to see an emphasis on real “healthy lifestyle,” as we understand it medically. I see so many diet coke addicts here in Utah, and so much obesity and lack of exercise, I really think the spirit of the law is being ignored. We spend so much time worrying about the letter of the law…”is caffeine really against the WoW?!” that we don’t see the forest through the trees sometimes. That 350 lb. fatty that won’t drink a cup of green tea is missing the point!
(all IMHO…)
Sure, Rix, but trying to regulate that would be a nightmare – which is why I like where we are now. Basically all that is enforced are the obvious taboos – and the rest is up to us to govern ourselves. I REALLY don’t want the Church to try to start establishing more guidelines on other issues. Moderation in all of those things is fine with me – and that’s the general principle that is taught in the non-forbidden areas. If you don’t follow the WoW, you loose your temple recommend, right? Are the obese driven from the temple? One glass of wine versus a lifetime of open-faced philly cheese steak sandwiches? Which is worse? Quote:Which is worse?
Doesn’t matter to me. Trying to regulate that stuff would be impossible – and not one person here would approve.
@Ray: I’m guessing most of us are making these comparisons, not in hopes of the church regulating more but the opposite: “teach the principle, let them govern themselves.”
Well, I grant you I do look a little cock-eyed at a high ranking church leader sporting a massive gut. I don’t have any issue with the WoW either, although I agree that it is taken to an extreme it was never intended for. But I have found in working with new-age enlightenment groups that they too value similar restrictions and use abstinence from these types of things as the foundation for some forms of meditation. When you run down the list of “prohibitions” I think there’s more upside than downside to abstaining: –
alcohol. Enough people are prone to excess on this one and impaired judgment even if they are not that it seems like a good idea to forego it. Also, the health benefits are certainly not so great that they outweigh the risks. Another interesting connection is that while we pay 10% in tithing, most of our non-LDS friends pay about that same amount on alcohol. –
coffee and tea. Far more addictive than lesser caffeinated drinks. And considerably more expensive any more! –
eating meat sparingly. Definitely a good idea as excessive red meat in particular contributes to colon cancer, hypertension and obesity. Ray, I don’t think any of us were suggesting adding more things as COMMANDMENTS. My point was to return the WoW to its original intent which was NOT by constraint or command. By doing so you can add all kinds of healthy “wisdom” that people can choose to accept or reject. Perhaps it would even help “the weakest of saints.” Who knows? But I can see that people would just assume it was a commandment straight from God anyway.
But then, I’m for returning to more of a Kirtland Temple situation where ALL were invited in and weddings were a public affair…Then regulation is a moot point.
Oh, I would also add “and chocolate for woman…”
In moderation of course!
Swim, do you really see pain meds in the same realm as tobacco usage? I guess I would have never put them into the same category. I can’t think of any redeeming qualities of tobacco (except to treat bruises). I’m all about natural remedies, but do see a time and purpose for meds. Tobacco, not so much.
Oh, and I guess I’ll add that I live and love the WoW.
just me wrote:Swim, do you really see pain meds in the same realm as tobacco usage?
Definitely with mood altering prescription meds, not so much pain meds. Tobacco is a type of anti-anxiety drug for many people. Pain meds would be more in line with alcohol, imo.
btw, many of these prescription meds are much more addictive than any of the “don’ts” in the WoW. Someone needs to do a thread on why some things get updated with new “guidelines” and other things don’t in the church. Prescription drugs would be number one on the list, in my mind. fwiw, I have no problem with anyone taking any drug whether legal or illegal in any safe, responsible way. Lest you think that I have some “problem” with prescription drugs.
My 2 cents… I see absolutely no purpose in the Word of Wisdom other than good advice to stay healthy and take care of your body (whatever that means in today’s society). I have completely lost my testimony in the Word of Wisdom as a required health commandment of any kind specific to any group of consumable products, but have completely put it as a spiritual law of faith-based obedience and abstinence, as a moral exercise. Having said my own views on it, I will also say I live it, and don’t see any reason to not live it.
Likewise, I see no reason the church would change it. Could it change? Sure, because I think energy drinks are worse than tea, in my irrelevant opinion.
Someone needs to think of a good argument why it should be changed, otherwise, it has become a cultural thing and is not a bad thing, so why fix something that ain’t broke.
Priesthood ban…definitely needed to change as it had huge impacts on mormon families and the growth of the church globally. Good reasons to change it.
Polygamy…go to jail and lose all church assets, good reason to change it.
SSM…right now, there are compelling arguments to change it…but time will tell how that plays out.
Word of Wisdom…I see no argument that alcohol, tea, coffee and tobacco can not be a token requirement to sacrafice for one’s faith in the Lord. Why must people
notbe told to abstain from these things? I see no argument to change it, despite having no testimony for requiring it. For me, it is way down on the totem pole of things that should be changed in the church. Heber13 wrote:Word of Wisdom…I see no argument that alcohol, tea, coffee and tobacco can not be a token requirement to sacrafice for one’s faith in the Lord. Why must people
notbe told to abstain from these things? I see no argument to change it, despite having no testimony for requiring it. For me, it is way down on the totem pole of things that should be changed in the church. Nice thoughts, Heber! I think what you said about the cultural attachments is an interesting one. I guess one of the reasons I see it could be good for the church is that there are some who ask why it is what it is, and when you answer for “health reasons,” it is inconsistent today with what we know about nutrition.
IOW, if we try to say “we believe it is important to be healthy, and this is to help us…,” while eating a whopper with cheese and a big gulp diet coke…while saying a glass of red wine with dinner is bad, we often get a cock-eyed response.
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