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Speculation alert! I think the meat sparingly in times of winter is a lot like the Jewish “don’t eat shellfish” thing. It’s about meat spoilage, not blocked colons. Back when WoW was received, the ability to preserve meat was very limited, but much more difficult in summer. In winter it could be frozen. There was no USDA inspection. It was also unthinkable that people would have such unrestricted access to meat that consuming mass quantities would be an issue as it is today, so personally I think the caution was to avoid food poisoning. Purely my opinion. Yet I do avoid eating lots of meat because I don’t like feeling bloated. I guess that was my point though, does anyone know what “hot drinks” had to do with the times? phaseIII wrote:I guess that was my point though, does anyone know what “hot drinks” had to do with the times?
The WofW wasn’t a single revelation. It was pieced together out of three different revelation experiences by the committee of the Church Elders that produced the Book of Commandments (later called the D&C). Earlier editions have less content in section 89. Section 89 was still approved by Joseph Smith in his lifetime though, so it does have that official stamp of authenticity. It appears to have been a combination of a revelation in response to Emma complaining about the use of tobacco and having to clean up the slop left by the Elders of the Church when they met at their house (the common story most of us are familiar with). There was also a revelation in response to rumors that non-Mormons were planning to poison the wine sold to the Church for use in sacrament ceremonies. So Joseph received a revelation to use only wine they produced in-house, assuring they would not be poisoned. Lastly, there was a wide-spread cholera epidemic in the region, and Joseph received a revelation on health and treatment that seemed to reflect many contemporary health ideas in his day. All these were combined later into Section 89 and given a heading and a couple introduction verses.
One aspect was a folk-cure for cholera. They would pour boiling liquids, often infused with herbs, on the skin to induce blisters. They would also try to drink it very hot as a cure. Joseph at the time (during a cholera outbreak) was concerned about this practice and wanted people to depend on the priesthood to be healed. Please note though, this is not as wacky as it sounds today. There really wasn’t much better anyways… no antibiotics and other modern treatments. So why not?
Good background Valoel, thank you. Could you direct me to where you learned this? Sounds like there would be more useful information there. Euhemerus wrote:Good background Valoel, thank you. Could you direct me to where you learned this? Sounds like there would be more useful information there.
Here is a link to a recording of a Sunstone Symposium presentation on the topic. It summarizes a lot of the information nicely. I am recalling most of this info from the jumbled bits in my memory, but that talk was a good one on the subject.
The Origins of the Word of Wisdom:
https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/shop/products/?product_id=1481&category=3 Here is a link to scanned pages from the 1835 D&C, section 89 was not in the original Book of Commandments.
http://www.irr.org/mit/d&c/1835dc-p207.html [note: the 1835 D&C link is on a site that one might consider anti-mormon … well, it seems more like anti-everything really hehe. They were kind enough to host this information]
Quote:Yet I do avoid eating lots of meat because I don’t like feeling bloated.
Being a guy takes care of that for me.
😈 I haven’t read this entire thread so my apologies if someone has already brought this up… What are we going to do, and how are we (mormon-types) going to feel, about medical marijuana? There are currently 14 states where it is legal under state law now and the federal government has announced that there will be no interference in state laws from now on.
In other words, it is now recognized in many states as a legitimate medicine for many disorders.
If it was discovered today, it would be regarded as a miracle drug.
From what I understand regarding illness, we should first seek to be healed through faith….if we lack that spiritual gift, we should then seek priesthood blessings,
herbs, and mild food. Pills and man-made chemical concoctions aren’t mentioned and…yes…there were plenty around in the late 1800’s.
My wife has chronic back pain that responds well to some strains of medical marijuana so she has applied for her registration. I’m a bit uneasy about telling our mormon friends and priesthood leaders as I know how we tend to hang onto traditions even when they are proven incorrect…….but our government has lied to us regarding this medicinal plant for so many years…
I don’t know….it’s probably going to come down to each person doing what he/she feels is right in this matter. That’s probably as it should be.
Bruce in Montana wrote:I don’t know….it’s probably going to come down to each person doing what he/she feels is right in this matter. That’s probably as it should be.
I agree with you here, Bruce…and hope that is how it settles out. But I think there will always be those in the church that needs the validation of the leaders…IOW, they will constantly be asking the bishops, etc, as to whether it is okay or not. Frankly, I think it is consistent with the standard “if it’s medically appropriate, and prescribed by a doctor, it’s okay.” I do think there are many members who over-use Rx meds, simply because they aren’t “okay,” and think a pill will fix them…so they hound us for a prescription until we give it to them….
I just hope we don’t get too many that use it…then go for a drive! I hate going behind a pot-smoker driving 30 mph on a 50 mph road!
😆 😆 Not to mention a Dorito shortage…
😆 You may have seen this internet article on the benefits of breaking the word of wisdom: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8367141.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8367141.stm” class=”bbcode_url”> The last part reads:
Quote:“The relationship between alcohol and heart disease remains controversial,” said Professor Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
“While there is good evidence that moderate consumption is protective in people who are at substantial risk of heart disease – which excludes most people under the age of 40 – we also know that most people underestimate how much they drink. This paper adds to the existing literature but should not be considered as definitive. “
In the UK, the recommendation is no more than two to three units of alcohol a day for women – the equivalent of one standard glass of wine – and three to four units for men.
The British Liver Trust said: “There have been several studies suggesting that small amounts of alcohol can reduce the risk of coronary heart disease in men over the age of 40.
“But these are often misinterpreted by people looking for a health reason to consume alcohol.
“If you want to look after your health, stay within the limits of no more than 3-4 units a day for men or 2-3 for women and aim to give yourself at least two days off alcohol a week.”
Professor Alan Maryon-Davis, president of the UK Faculty of Public Health, agreed that the message from this study was not clear: “At the end of the day, you’re juggling different risks and benefits, maybe helping your heart or maybe damaging your brain and liver.
“The simple message is moderation.
“Stick to the guidelines, and you won’t go far wrong.”
Clearly the jury is out and the medical literature waivers, which can lead some to be more committed to the WoW knowing God’s law has not wavered and one day the doctors will figure it out, while others will think the WoW is a “guideline” and moderation is they key.
It makes me wonder why the WoW isn’t taught more true to the revelation as I read it in the D&C, which was given “not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom” (D&C 89:2) for our health, and not a list of 4 No-Nos that require abstinence to enter the waters of baptism or the temple.
Do you think the clarity of the WoW in specific terms as we have it now is better because it is enforce-able, or has it overshadowed the purpose of teaching moderation and wise care of health for the tabernacle of clay we have stewardship over? What do you think of all these medical studies and what they claim? Are we learning more or just justifying the natural man?
Quote:Are we learning more or just justifying the natural man?
Yes?
Just wanted to respond to Herber. Your last question .. The “Way” it is gone about now (WOW) imo completely overshadows the purpose of the “Original” message/tone of the WOW.In my TRI I believe it is simply asked if I obey the WOW .. as it is currently practiced (IS that correct?) or is it JUST obey the WOW? I remember getting the missionary disscusions and it being very much NO Alcohol, NO tea/coffee, No drugs, No tobacco b/c that is how it is .. that is what you need to comit to avoid and start to avoid to be baptized.The culture has killed the spirit of wisdom, I think. The focus is on four things, out of the many many unhealthy items in the world .. Idk if the Church instigates that attitude .. or if it is the individual to blame for really imo not following the “Correct” wisdom of the WOW. I really beleive it could have been actual revelation .. when it originated..Now it almost seems like a joke and embarrassment. (Not so much the wisdom of it but the judgement, and tunnel vision it brings out in some memebers)
This summer DH, MIL and I went out to eat. Before we got there DH was craving sweet tea. I told him NOT to drink it in front of his mom. He said she wouldn’t care. He knew she “Would respect his free agency” , no big deal. He orders sweet tea, MIL starts glaring, MIL starts giving him a worthiness interview, Tells him he might not get to the CK for thinking it is “Ok” to have things in moderation. Very akward , very immature and very stupid imo. She is in her early 60’s – If everyone reacts this way about TEA of all things! .. I’m not so sure the WOW current spirit will change any day soon.
I try so hard to get personal revelation on he WOW and actually follow the WOW but it seems like members and The Church kind of shut that kind of thing down and turn around and preach tunnel vision versions of the WOW..Don’t do certain things .. But go eat your heart full of bad food and you are good to go?! Just b/c we don’t “Care” about anything really unless it is “This, This and This ..” Makes me wonder what the WOW is even about at it’s current time. Really .. If it isn’t about overall health .. what is it about? It really bothers me .. makes me feel like the leaders are pulling legs .. that and the gay issue. It’s like they talk to GOD .. Why don’t they know gay people are born gay(imo)? .. They talk to GOD why don’t they reverse the WOW attitude and get people eating healthy and off the prescribed drugs .. I know they aren’t perfect and idk what I expect from them, maybe I expect members to follow it in the right spirit..which leads back to is The Church instigating the “Wrong” spirit or is it culture now?
I wanted to add that I think I know what I expect (which holds no value to anything or anyone but myself).
IF the current reading of the WOW is really about health/or being in your best health to enter the temple – Obesity (being a “New” problem) needs to be addressed – Using pain killers needs to be addressed – Soda, Energy drinks, McDonalds Big-Mac’s etc need to be addressed. TR interviews should include asking current weight – making sure you are at the “Normal” weight for your height. TR interviews should include questions on medication and how it makes you feel and if it makes you feel “Different” than what you would normally feel.
And I’m just going with this b/c if people seriously question what “Tea” is and which we can have and not have (which is silly)..Why not be silly with weight requirments, pill pocedure, daily calorie intake.
If it really is about health – update it to include the “New” unhealthy trends.
Or simply let the “Control” factor go. Teach the WOW like it was back in the day. Teach members the “Big Picture” of the WOW and stop getting in a bunch about four or five things. Everything just makes me feel like The Temple should be respected – it should be entered by people who respect themselves – and it should be open to sinners even those who drink tea but excercise and eat healthy – it should be about spirit and balance .. but it is so lost in outward image and “Just doing what your told”. I know it isn’t the case for all but it is for some.
I don’t think the dangers of not eating right and not exercising were quite as well know when the WoW became a requirement. It does seem a little bit “dated”. Can you imagine what would happen today if being overweight was reason enough to not get a TR? ….. and how much overweight? …. and who decides?
It’s always bothered me that a person who enjoys
acold beer after a hard day’s work can be turned down for his/her TR but a person who won’t exercise or eat correctly to the point of endangering his/her health is just fine. Of course if you bring these issues up it’s:
1) you’re trying to excuse your own indulging in one of the big 4
2) it’s a test of obedience and we shouldn’t ask “why”
3) it separates/identifies us as a unique people
I understand the Church’s position however…if the requirement were changed today to “moderation” there would be many folks who might try an occassional beer, for instance, that wouldn’t be able to control themselves. Then the Church would be dealing with increased alcoholism problems in the membership. I’m not sure how that would apply to coffee and tea though.
LaLaLove wrote:I know they aren’t perfect and idk what I expect from them, maybe I expect members to follow it in the right spirit..which leads back to is The Church instigating the “Wrong” spirit or is it culture now?
Wow, LaLa, very heartfelt! This may be one of the more difficult aspects of the culture because it’s become so emblematic of what it is to be “Mormon”. It’s almost like it’s the defining part of the identity that members embrace. That may be ridiculous (actually, it is) but that is where we’re at with the majority of TBM’s embracing stage-3-ism.
I feel like this is a perfect example of the test that, at some point, we all may be required to take: that of defining and self-identifying for ourselves rather than for the group. I know most TBM’s will never get here, but for those of us who have embarked on a different journey, this is our lot. Testing the limits of participating fully in the community while self-identifying as something that transcends the group-think of the community. Maybe….
They now sell Coke at the Temple. It is decaf, but apparently that makes it OK. Just had to add that to this conversation.
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