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Remember what tools the church has given you – You can take the essays in and explain some of your struggle through those.
You have handbook instructions you can use.
https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng&query=priesthood+ordinance ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng&query=priesthood+ordinance Quote:A bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to name and bless his children even if the father is not fully temple worthy. Likewise, a bishop may allow a father who is a priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder to baptize his children or to ordain his sons to offices in the Aaronic Priesthood. A Melchizedek Priesthood holder in similar circumstances may be allowed to stand in the circle for the confirmation of his children, for the conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood on his sons, or for the setting apart of his wife or children. However, he may not act as voice.
Add Elder Holland’s recent talk or Uchtdorf or both.
Be calm. Really calm and loving.
Unfortunately, the person with the most awareness bears the most responsibility for how the interaction goes. It’s unfortunate when that is NOT the person in power. mom3 wrote:
A bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to name and bless his children even if the father is not fully temple worthy. Likewise, a bishop may allow a father who is a priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder to baptize his children
I used to think that the bishop was bound to let you as the father perform the baptism. However, the church allows heavily for local insight/inspiration. I honestly have a hard time imagining an AA overruling a decision of an SP on this matter.
My own plan is to: 1) remain as vague as possible about doubts. 2) present myself as someone that is broken, struggling, work in progress, hopeful, moving forward in faith, supporting my family. This for me is the hardest. I am a professional at work that supervises a large team but in the bishop’s office I am that unfaithful servant petitioning for mercy. I am not accustomed to feeling like a kid in the principal’s office. However I believe it is important to not challenge the assumed power relationship. 3) stay under the radar.
Given what has already transpired. I would support requesting a meeting with the SP for you and your wife. Talk with your wife ahead of time to let her know the game plan. Essentially, she is there to act as a character witness for you and perhaps testify to how this issue is affecting your family. Explain that your son’s baptism is coming up and that everyone’s heart is set on having you perform the ordinance. Your faith may be weak but it still exists. Further you have hope for things that are so beautiful and inspiring that you have determined to live as though they were true – even without certain knowledge. I would say that you understand that fathers may be permitted to baptize their children even if not strictly temple worthy. I would ask for a repentance plan or perhaps more specifically a plan that might help you demonstrate your sincere faith. I might say that you recognize that the confirmation might require a higher standard of worthiness and that you are prepared to have a grandfather perform this role. If the SP still does not seem willing to budge maybe ask him to pray about it and promise that you and your wife will do the same.
If he asks you pointed questions about your belief, I would be ready to deflect with something like, “I don’t know, but I feel that God loves his children.” or “I find that so inspiring. I hope that it is true.” or “the evidence is so confusing, but I try to move forward with faith.”
Baptizing my children and ordaining my son (thus continuing the priesthood line of authority) are important to me. I try to manage my relationships with church leadership with an eye geared to keeping these options open.
I think if I were you, I’d say “Despite my doubts, I am always willing to act on the faith that it’s true.” If you want to get technical, the Bishop has full authority over the keys of baptism, not the SP unless you’re officially disfellowshipped (which I think might alsobe under the BP’s umbrella). The SP can disallow you from the confirmation, but I think that’s about it. Unfortunately I’m not sure that’s a battle worth lawyering. Leadership roulette really sucks. I wish the best to you.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
6 – paying tithing can be done annually or directly to the COB, so that’s truly not relevant. They would have no way of knowing whether you intend to pay it in a lump at the end of the year or directly to the COB. I generally pay via stock transfer to the COB. You can’t transfer stocks to the ward. Holding this over your head would reveal their ignorance and nothing more.One couple who posted here a few years ago indicated the Bishop asked them about tithing and required them to pay it for a while before he would consider letting the husband baptize their son. The wife of the couple titled the post “Creative Ways to Pay Tithing” as a result. So, leaders do ask mid-term, and they have required tithing payments as a symbol of one’s commitment to the church for others in DT’s situation.
However, the SP doesn’t seem to be making this about tithing. He’s making this about doubt and apparently, not trusting the Spirit.
I wouldn’t raise the tithing thing at this point unless they ask about it.
You have gotten some good advice. I can’t add to it. I only can add my heartfelt sorrow for getting the short end of the leadership stick and reiterate that you have the handbook and apostolic statements on your side. I second the advice to contact your Area Authority. I would express sincere, humble bafflement over why you can’t baptize your son, given what the handbook says and the fact that you are an active, dedicated member who is trying to act in faith despite not being able to say you know some things. I would say it feels like faith is being punished and that you are being told you have to know everything to perform baptism – which, obviously, isn’t true, since we allow teenagers to do it.
So tonight’s the big night. I’m going in to meet with my SP to see if I’ll be allowed to baptize my son. I need to be careful with my words and attitude and not let me get carried away with emotions. I have been trying to harbor as much hope as I can muster and have been willing to act on that hope. I don’t have much to offer in terms of current “beliefs.” That is where my faith is at right now and hopefully it will be enough for him. I am still frustrated that I have to go through these hoops but it is my current situation and I have accepted that.
Any last minute advice on how I should approach things tonight?
Wishing you luck. DoubtingTom wrote:
I am still frustrated that I have to go through these hoops but it is my current situation and I have accepted that.
TOOOOOOOTALLY normal to have those frustrations. I’m frustrated for you.
I would just compartmentalize as much as you can. Don’t worry right now about the dumb hoops you’ve been having to jump through…and instead…just be in the moment and look ahead with hope and faith that what will happen will be ok. That may mean some kind and humble advocating for your position and what you feel is right and not give in without pushing and asking…but in the end, realizing this whole process is of value to you and your family, and how you handle it matters more than the outcome.
I will pray for you. I really hope you can baptize your son. I really think it could be a bonding ritual. But if not…it will be on the heads of those leaders, and ultimately we move on and deal with it. In the end, it is about your son and he needs to feel good about himself and his covenant to be baptized, however that happens.
You are handling it well. I pray the leaders will do what is right. You’re in my prayers.
I just want to offer my support. Last year I was in a similar situation: I had gone to the bishop for counsel with private doubts I had been struggling with and he ended up denying me the privilege of confirming my child. It was a major punch to the gut that almost sent me off the deep end. Thankfully I didn’t make any rash major decisions and I am just now reaching the point where I can have positive feelings about the church. Anyway I know at least in part what you are feeling. It really hurts.
Welcome Sneelock! Mr. Sneelock wrote:
I just want to offer my support. Last year I was in a similar situation: I had gone to the bishop for counsel with private doubts I had been struggling with and he ended up denying me the privilege of confirming my child. It was a major punch to the gut that almost sent me off the deep end. Thankfully I didn’t make any rash major decisions and I am just now reaching the point where I can have positive feelings about the church.Anyway I know at least in part what you are feeling. It really hurts.
Sorry that happened to you Sneelock. It just sucks. There sometimes just isn’t much you can do about it. But…it’s good to hear you eventually worked through it. What helped you the most to get back to positive feelings? Does time heal wounds, or did you shift any thinking?
Sneelock, Just to verify, your bishop did allow you to baptize but not confirm. Is that correct? The handbook does seem to indicate a higher level or “worthiness” is required for confirmation (although both seem to be at significant discretion from the bishop). I am sorry regardless.
Thanks to all the well wishes, thoughts, and prayers! My SP said I can go ahead with baptizing and confirming my son, although I may have his grandpa do the confirmation with me still standing in the circle. I am very grateful for all your support!
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