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Here’s a linkWorldwide devotional for young adults, an evening with President Russell M. Nelson, January 8, 2017.
If you want to save time the yakking starts at 11:45. I’ll try to do the highlights.
Sister Wendy W. NelsonMarriage is essential. No surprises there. Love and marriage, love and marriage. It’s an institute you can’t disparage.
- “The Lord wants a husband and wife to partake of the wonders and joys of marital intimacy.” She mentioned that the world teaches the exact opposite of this. Unless she was placing emphasis on the genders I’m not sure where she was going with that. We’ve had many discussions here about how church teachings sometimes interfere with the intimacy in some relationships.
- “For true marital intimacy the Holy Ghost needs to be involved.” That perv. Kidding aside, when I parse the whole section of the talk I come away with trying to live a pure life helps couples become more intimate. Impurity and anything worldly is just a sexual experience.
- “With worldly sex anything goes. With marital intimacy exquisite care is taken to avoid anything that offends the Spirit.”
Maude: Oh, Neddy. Look at them up there, plotting our doom. They could force us to commit wanton acts of carnality.
Ned: (Under his breath) Yeah, that’ll be the day.
🙄 You know you’ve got a problem when about a dozen Simpsons references come to mind as you go about your day.
Grandpa Simpson: What’s so unappealing about hearing your elderly father talk about sex? I had seeeeex.
There, I’m done. At least in this post anyway.
- Body is a prize of mortal life. I don’t know why the call-out, referring to the body as a prize just sounds weird to me. In fact prize doesn’t seem to fit in any religious context.
- “Worldly sex has been likened as the toot of a flute.” Did this devotional get a PG rating? Jeez.
:angel: - Elder Nelson is a swinger.
Summary: Worldly sex sucks. Churchy sex doesn’t.
:thumbdown: Elder Russell M. Nelson“Your responsibility to the Lord to help gather the elect out of the
moral chaos and the swirling preponderance of sinin our day is no small undertaking.” Poetic. :thumbup: - Paraphrase time. The youth have to be really good leaders. The world looks to Napoleon, Joan of Arc, George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa, and others… “I believe that the finest leaders to have walked the earth are the prophets of God.” I admit it. This one managed to coax an audible “HA!” out of me. I’m not saying the prophets were bad examples (well maybe some were) but here I think Elder Nelson makes a big mistake of venerating people, not principles.
Why not teach people to emulate the best of Napoleon, the best of Joan of Arc, the best of George Washington, the best of Mahatma Gandhi, the best of Mother Teresa, the best of Elder Monson, and the best of others? Life isn’t a contest to determine the best leader. Why not drop the teaching that members should fix their gaze on church leaders and shift focus on fixing our gaze on any lived Christlike principle, regardless of the source?
That’s my only real criticism of the devotional.
- In reference to his age: “I no longer buy green bananas.”
:clap: - This talk probably won’t be people’s favorite but the overall theme is to learn from the Christlike behaviors of some of the leaders of the church. If you boil it down to the talk’s essence I think he’s saying: your grandfather sacrificed a lot for this family, when you’re a grandfather – remember that. Much of the talk may be interpreted as hero worship but I think he’s setting the bar for himself and future leaders.
- Prophets are good leaders because they obey the two great commandments and know how to receive revelation and respond to it quickly.
:think: - There’s a section on divine law and he was pretty emphatic that when divine law is obeyed blessings
alwaysresult. I guess he didn’t say when the blessings arrive or that the blessing may be in a form that we wouldn’t recognize as such. He’s very black and white about divine laws. What’s right is right, what’s wrong is wrong. - I think Elder Nelson takes the “god as a master scientist” approach. Electrical laws have to be upheld, when a wire in a pacemaker isn’t insulated properly it won’t work properly. He extends this to god. God’s law doesn’t work without exact obedience, they don’t work unless everything is just so.
- He mentions that sin has predictable, dependable, and repeatable outcomes and obeying has predictable, dependable, and repeatable outcomes. I can only get behind this statement when I add, “and the outcomes are entirely unknown.”
I watched this. During Sr. Nelson’s part I got a text from my RM/BYU student son asking if I was watching. I confirmed that I was (I didn’t think he probably was actually) and he replied “Did she just say worldly sex is like the toot of a flute? What the heck does that mean?” I told him I didn’t know what it meant and that I was having a hard time fully agreeing with her. He knows I joined the church at 21 and had been sexually active (but not too active) prior to that. I told him I saw little difference in that sex I had previously and the sex I had after marriage except that it was much more regular after marriage. I can’t say that it has ever been a “spiritual experience” for me. Maybe I’m missing something, or maybe I somehow unknowingly offend the Spirit. As Nibbler alludes to, I’m not sure I want a third “personage” involved with my sex life anyway. The “toot of a flute” thing also brought another image to my mind, but this is a PG rated board.
And frankly I wondered during the whole thing how much sex this woman has actually had having never married prior to marrying an 82-year-old. Her point of view is one sided among other things. And who would go to an unmarried therapist for marriage advice? But I digress….
And you’re right about Pres. Nelson’s part, too, Nibbler. I mostly caught “The prophets are the greatest leaders and guess what – I’m next in line, so I’m automatically in that club.”
I also have a hard time getting behind the strict obedience thing because while I believe it may be true that blessings are predicated on obedience to specific commandments, I don’t believe there’s any way for us to know generally which blessings come from which commandments. Our last stake conference a speaker said something along the lines of success at his work (professor) being a direct result of his obedience to the WoW. As is often the case, I was sitting there thinking “How the heck do you make that connection?”
I used to be a surgical tech, and I worked sometimes in open heart surgery. It’s really awesome, actually. However, the doctor that asked him that question about the chemical compounds always working was right – despite Pres. Nelson’s emphatic statement, it does not always work (admittedly usually due to other factors).
His talk is definitely not on my list of favorites, but it wasn’t really directed at me either. On the other hand, I’m not sure the generation it is directed at generally buys in. All in all this talk is what I have come to expect from Nelson. Long live the king.
(And the jokes were stolen and old.)
I am a flute player, and I’ve had sex, and let me tell you, they are NOTHING alike. 😆 The flute tooting thing was an analogy (on top of 5 other analogies) with perhaps a poor choice of words. Worldly sex is like tooting a flute. True intimacy (sex when both partners are pure, presumably with the HG involved
:crazy: ) is like the whole orchestra. Could have gone with any other instrument. Worldly sex is like beating a drum. Worldly sex is like fiddling with the sousaphone valves. Nope. Flute tooting.And was I the only one biting my nails when she just spent the last 10 minutes of her talk talking about sex then leads off the next segment talking about what present she was going to give E. Nelson for their anniversary. I was like
😯 😯 😯 she’s going to go there.:angel: Joni wrote:I am a flute player, and I’ve had sex, and let me tell you, they are NOTHING alike.
😆
If done right, both will increase your respiration! And both need lots of practice before it gets REALLY good.This little event was my wake up conversation yesterday – that and Meryl Streep. I was so over both by 7:30 am. My positive take away is that I love Elder Uchtdorf even more. The man has never done a GA fireside tour. Instead he goes to interfaith events and mingles with strangers from foreign lands. Or presents checks to non-denominational community groups so they can thrive.
The Nelson Traveling Tour is so done for me.
I’m not sure what to say about this topic. :think: …except…it all feels kinda weird to me to be putting some of these thoughts and concepts in the same topic…like the spirit and sex.…I dunno…I think I’m just gonna stick to my cafeteria approach that all things don’t have to be explained within religion and the gospel. Some things are part of life, not necessarily involving the spirit.
I’ll leave it at that.
As I have thought about this more, I have decided I am willing to consider that Sr. Nelson may well be doing something that is very common in the church – confusing emotion with the Spirit. That first time is something at least all guys remember. Being that hers came later in life and with nothing else to compare it to, I understand her point of view. She likely will not understand mine because I have seen such things from different points of view. (At a party awhile back we had “better than sex” cake. It wasn’t.
:lolno: )I thought people mightbe overreacting to the Nelsons before, but it’s been awhile now, and I don’t look forward to hearing much more. Overall, I came away with: strange, embarrassing, irrelevant to me. Heber mentioned sticking with the cafeteria approach, but especially for kids’ sakes, I’ll say that cafeterias need health inspectors and workers with food handler’s licenses or even the stuff you like could be contaminated.
And if the point of the evening is to inspire people to read about and emulate the life of Christ, why…..? Why the obsessive talk about sex, and why the odd competition between Napoleon, Mother Theresa and President Hinckley’? And can you picture the latter saying anything like that?
And now, one double-space down, I feel guilty. I shouldn’t be critical, etc.
But then I read, and tend to agree:
Quote:Today, authority has to earn respect by the intrinsic value of what it says, not by the force of its imposition.
For better or worse, this is where I am.
Frankly, I have never liked anything about Sr. Nelson’s doctrinal views. Nothing. This didn’t change that opinion. I believe Elder Nelson has been influenced by her since their marriage. It seems to me that he is more hardline now than he used to be. That might be incorrect and uncharitable toward her, but it is how I feel.
I thought her framing of all things sexual was SO Victorian and gender-influenced as to be almost comical – and I feel both sorry for her and happy for her. (sorry for her obvious lack of awesome sex and happy that she has found true joy in her current marriage)
Given the comparison list, I would have walked out of the meeting hoping for awesome worldly sex, frankly. It reminds me of the stories of preachers going on and on and on about the sins of the world so graphically that the young listeners wanted to see what all the fun was like.
Well, you don’t toot a flute. I suspect she would know that if she had ever tried. It’s not a recorder. That comment alone wins her the Tobias Funke award. She’s got some messed up crazy ideas. I know she has bona fides as a therapist or whatever, but her strawman caricature of what “worldly sex” is like is utterly ludicrous, and her ideas about spiritual sex are fetishist.
Quote:
fet·ish noun 1. a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc. 2.an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
In short, she cray.Oh come on. Certainly I am not the only girl who has ever called out loudly to diety during intimate moments. I’m sure that was what she meant.
And .. I’m surprised there was no mention about the evils of tooting your own horn.
If feelings of love are the Spirit, then I’ve definitely felt it. This one very memorable time, I felt the Spirit very strongly when my wife . Anyway, I think DarkJedi is right, and she’s confusing emotion with the Spirit.
Another, perhaps less probable explanation, is that this is a way of counteracting Good Girl Syndrome brought on by years of culturally acceptable sex-negative talk at Church. If sex is a spiritual experience, then it can’t be wrong, right?
Reuben wrote:If feelings of love are the Spirit, then I’ve definitely felt it. This one very memorable time, I felt the Spirit very strongly when my wife
. Anyway, I think DarkJedi is right, and she’s confusing emotion with the Spirit.
Another, perhaps less probable explanation, is that this is a way of counteracting Good Girl Syndrome brought on by years of culturally acceptable sex-negative talk at Church. If sex is a spiritual experience, then it can’t be wrong, right?
Holland has talked about there being “sacraments” within marriage. But that still seems an odd symbol.
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