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Something upsetting happened to me (actually quite a few things) these last couple weeks. I would like to rely on prayer to feel better. I would like to ask for blessings and for satisfactory resolutions to some heart-wrenching situations, and to rely on God to help me through them. But I have been disapointed so many times during prayer, I’m reluctant to use it. Here are some of the reasons
1. When I pray, and I don’t receive answers for long periods of time (such as decades) it hurts my faith in prayer as an effective means of operating in the world.
2. I feel like I am sucking air through a straw when I pray. I don’t normally feel better afterwards.
3. I don’t think God cares very much about the things I pray about. The fact that he’s left me to suffer for some things for long periods of time is a case in point.
4. I have never felt “forgiven” when I pray for forgiveness of my trespasses. The only way I feel forgiven is through my own non-God-directed meditation when I think about the reasons I shouldn’t beat myself up over the mistakes I make. Once, I even fasted for 3 days and went praying in the woods for a half day and I still didn’t feel any better about a mistake I made. Enos’ experience in the BoM doesn’t translate to my own life.
5. Personal therapy (such as EMDR therapy) has been more effective in helping me forgive others and deal with upsetting situations than prayer does.
Do you rely on prayer? What place does it have in your life and do you think prayer is an effective way of achieving a better life than without it?I have difficulty with prayer too. The conclusion I come up with is: God wants us to work through whatever issue or problem we are faced with. That is the only conclusion I can come away with for me personally. I do know others who get a great
deal out of prayer. My Wife is one of them.
I do not feel that prayer is an effective means of changing life circumstances. I do feel that prayer can be effective when coupled with some other things at helping us cope with life circumstances.
(I also feel that different people with different circumstances may receive varying levels of effectiveness. If you are trying prayer and it isn’t helping that doesn’t necessarily mean that you are doing it wrong. Maybe prayer just isn’t for you.)
As I stated above, I think prayer tends to work best when coupled with other things. 1) goals and a plan 2) community and family support – etc.
I have heard to “pray as though everything depends upon God and then get off your knees and work as if everything depends upon you.” I believe that this means that prayer for you would work best when coupled with meditation and EMDR therapy and anything else that you can do to help arrive at your desired result (again, the desired result might just be to become more at peace with the circumstances).
I am sorry for the things that you are going through right now SD.
Thanks, the challenges are probably no worse than what other people cope with, but I appreciate the thought. I am finding that simple meditation is better for me than prayer. It’s a state of deep relaxation where I just focus on breathing, getting calm, and then letting my thoughts run. I find that helps me more than a prayer where I ask for something to happen and then wait with baited breath (or WORK myself silly) for it to come to fruition.
Quote:Do you rely on prayer?
Prayer was a major factor in my own faith crisis and is not a significant part of my rebuilt faith. I do not rely on prayer in any way.
Quote:What place does it have in your life and do you think prayer is an effective way of achieving a better life than without it?
While I don’t see any harm in thanking God for blessings*, in the rare instances I pray personally I ask for nothing and expect nothing. I usually, but not always,feel peace when I pray. When I haven’t played the game well enough and get asked to pray publicly the prayers are very generic.*I believe God neither blesses nor curses us in this life. What happens, happens.
I don’t pray all that much anymore but I do find that listening to others’ sincere prayers does elevate me somewhat. I do pray in an abstract, meditative kind of way I guess but I wouldn’t say it’s all that ritualistic or common. But extending your thoughts to a power higher than your own (even if that power is something as vague and indistinct as “Life” or “Fate”) can be helpful to me. It reminds me that I am more than just myself and that I am part of a vast network of life that we might consider “God” if we want to think that way. Or if it helps to imagine an actual figure in its place, I think that can work, too. Just a side note: in the Church, we have always kind of thought ourselves superior because we believe in a God that is an exalted man…that this is more logical and helps form a greater connection. I thought this way, too. Then I Iistened to an interview with a Church of England minister who rejected the notion of a “bloody God” (meaning a God that has a body). He felt a greater connection to the God without “body, parts or passions”, a being radically different and more powerful than himself. Not saying that’s my own attitude but it does remind me that what SEEMS logical to me may only be because of my upbringing and traditions.
DarkJedi wrote:
When I haven’t played the game well enough and get asked to pray publicly the prayers are very generic.
I was asked to pray at the beginning of SM today. I gave thanks that we could meet together. I asked for the spirit of God to be with us and help direct us through the meeting. I prayed that our hearts might be prepared for participating in the sacrament. the end.SilentDawning wrote:
I am finding that simple meditation is better for me than prayer.
What would you feel about meditation AND prayer? What if in the prayer you only ask that you might have a relaxing and effective meditation session?SilentDawning wrote:
I am finding that simple meditation is better for me than prayer.
Roy wrote:
What would you feel about meditation AND prayer? What if in the prayer you only ask that you might have a relaxing and effective meditation session?
I could try it. I like DJ’s idea of using prayer as a way of giving thanks. If you don’t ask for anything you won’t ever be disappointed.
I remember that I once gave a birthday card to a friend that said on the front:
“Blessed are they who expect nothing on their birthday”.
Then, when you open the card it says inside:
“For they shall not be disappointed”.
I think that’s good advice for prayer. I also wonder if God will bestow blessings through grace if the only time he hears from me is when I am grateful something (which is daily).
Picture this guy struggling with life, but all prayers are thanksgiving. Wouldn’t that soften your heart to bestow tender mercies if you were God?
SilentDawning wrote:
I think that’s good advice for prayer. I also wonder if God will bestow blessings through grace if the only time he hears from me is when I am grateful something (which is daily).Picture this guy struggling with life, but all prayers are thanksgiving. Wouldn’t that soften your heart to bestow tender mercies if you were God?
I think that sounds like a great plan… as long as you don’t try not asking for things as the new way to get things. That makes it sound as if you are trying to find a new way to trick God into giving into you.
I imagine that circumstances outside of my control will proceed exactly the same if I were to pray or not pray. My prayer then, is only effective at changing my motivations to work on the things that I can control AND/OR working to manage how I cope with the things that I cannot control.
I don’t think anyone hears my prayers. God is within me, and prayer is a meditative practice that has many benefits. To quote one doctor:
Quote:
“Learning to sit in stillness and self-reflect is one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves and our kids,” says Dr. Amy Sullivan, PsyD. “When we look internally and delve deeper into our value system and wants and needs, we can communicate at a deeper level. We have to foster that ability.”Dr. Sullivan says silence helps us develop the skills to have:
More profound thoughts.
Stronger relationships.
Increased creativity.
Improved communication skills.
Source:https://www.google.com/amp/s/health.clevelandclinic.org/why-you-need-more-silence-in-your-life/amp/ I find answers sometimes to problems at work, or in my life, with still quiet moments to think and times to not think but to observe or follow thoughts. I don’t know I believe answers come from any source outside me. Not sure. But there are benefits to it when I relax and let the thoughts flow and not force it or expect it to be anything than what it is, as a personal experience.
Hiking in the mountains is particularly effective for me.
I think that is prayer. Meditation and prayer are basically the same thing to me, with some variations, but not much different in practice.
Roy wrote:
SilentDawning wrote:
I think that’s good advice for prayer. I also wonder if God will bestow blessings through grace if the only time he hears from me is when I am grateful something (which is daily).Picture this guy struggling with life, but all prayers are thanksgiving. Wouldn’t that soften your heart to bestow tender mercies if you were God?
I think that sounds like a great plan… as long as you don’t try not asking for things as the new way to get things. That makes it sound as if you are trying to find a new way to trick God into giving into you.I imagine that circumstances outside of my control will proceed exactly the same if I were to pray or not pray. My prayer then, is only effective at changing my motivations to work on the things that I can control AND/OR working to manage how I cope with the things that I cannot control.
Not really trying to trick God, but it would be nice to make blessings more predictably associated with prayer. The key would be to NOT expect anything, and then, if/when it happens to be thankful.
SilentDawning wrote:
Not really trying to trick God, but it would be nice to make blessings more predictably associated with prayer. The key would be to NOT expect anything, and then, if/when it happens to be thankful.
If you believe “there is a law irrevocably decreed….” (not sure I do, but it would explain some things) then blessings don’t really come from prayer anyway unless prayer is a commandment (I don’t believe it is) and the particular thing you seek is from obeying that particular commandment. IOW, I don’t think any of us can say I got X blessing because I didn’t murder anyone today or I got Y blessing because I kept the Sabbath. We don’t seem to know which blessing are tied to which commandments.
I don’t disagree with the notion that when we recognize a blessing we can express gratitude for it regardless of how it came about. But as I have said before, I don’t believe God blesses or curses us during this life – what happens, happens (and there are of course consequences to some decisions).
Heber13 wrote:
I think that is prayer. Meditation and prayer are basically the same thing to me, with some variations, but not much different in practice.
Yes! This sounds about where I sit as well.
Roy wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
I think that is prayer. Meditation and prayer are basically the same thing to me, with some variations, but not much different in practice.
Yes! This sounds about where I sit as well.
How does faith play a role in your prayers? Just wondering so I can reflect, if you don’t mind sharing your ideas for me? I just wonder if meditation can include connection to the divine. I think it does…I guess…based on how I meditate.
Heber13 wrote:
Roy wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
I think that is prayer. Meditation and prayer are basically the same thing to me, with some variations, but not much different in practice.
Yes! This sounds about where I sit as well.
How does faith play a role in your prayers?Just wondering so I can reflect, if you don’t mind sharing your ideas for me? I just wonder if meditation can include connection to the divine. I think it does…I guess…based on how I meditate.
For me, faith occurs in a couple ways. One, the fact that I’m praying shows some faith in God. I wasn’t entirely accurate earlier — I do pray for ONE THING now and then, and am persistent at it, but only when I see no way of getting the thing I want through my own efforts. So, the fact that I ask for something and HOPE that it comes to fruition shows faith that God hears prayers and sometimes answers them.
But most of the time I just meditate and give thanks for the good things in my life.
SD
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